In this riveting discussion, biochemist Mike Behe and biologist Joshua Swamidass dive into the aftermath of the Kitzmiller-Dover trial. Behe, a leading intelligent design advocate, reflects on the trial's long-term effects, while Swamidass offers a critical perspective on the theory of intelligent design. They tackle the concept of irreducible complexity, comparing biology to engineering, and explore the intersection of faith and science. Their respectful debate highlights the ongoing tension between evolution and design, making for a thought-provoking conversation.