Michael Tomasky, editor of The New Republic, discusses the aftermath of the VP debate, providing insights on Trump's dwindling public empathy. Greg Epstein, a humanist chaplain at Harvard and MIT, dives into his new book, 'Tech Agnostic,' exploring technology's role as a modern religion. The conversation highlights the need for reevaluating our spiritual beliefs in the tech era and critiques the worship-like devotion to Silicon Valley leaders. The duo also addresses the ethical dilemmas posed by for-profit initiatives during societal crises.

Journalist Michael Tomasky joins the show to discuss the origins of middle-out economics, its contrast with trickle-down economics, and the importance of inclusivity in the economy. They explore the power of storytelling in shaping public perception, the lack of economic literacy in journalism, and the flaws of neoclassical economic theory. They also dive into the theory of middle-out economics, which prioritizes including more people and leveraging their knowledge as the main economic resource.