In this engaging discussion, Matt Healey, founder of First Person Consulting and expert in systems thinking, shares insights on tackling deeper issues rather than just symptoms. He distinguishes program evaluation from systems evaluation, emphasizing the importance of context. Matt introduces the 'Problems to Possibilities' canvas, encouraging a shift from deficits to opportunities. He also highlights the System Effects methodology, illustrating its application with a study on lawyer wellbeing, which uncovered 45 interacting factors. This thought-provoking conversation transforms how we approach complex challenges.