In Too Deep The systems behind the symptoms | Episode 15
Jul 23, 2025
In this engaging discussion, Matt Healey, founder of First Person Consulting and expert in systems thinking, shares insights on tackling deeper issues rather than just symptoms. He distinguishes program evaluation from systems evaluation, emphasizing the importance of context. Matt introduces the 'Problems to Possibilities' canvas, encouraging a shift from deficits to opportunities. He also highlights the System Effects methodology, illustrating its application with a study on lawyer wellbeing, which uncovered 45 interacting factors. This thought-provoking conversation transforms how we approach complex challenges.
AI Snips
Chapters
Transcript
Episode notes
Symptoms Vs Systemic Causes
- Problems are often symptoms of many interacting factors rather than the root cause itself.
- Framing issues as systemic shifts the starting point for intervention and prevents treating only symptoms.
From Archaeology To Systems Work
- Matt traced his path from archaeology to anthropology to environmental science and then into program evaluation.
- A social network analysis project was the tipping point that pulled him into systems work.
Reframe Evaluation As Systemic Mapping
- Traditional evaluation positions the evaluator separate from the evaluated program with linear logic models.
- Systems evaluation replaces linear models with dynamic maps that contextualize interventions among many interacting elements.