Josh Chin and Liza Lin, Wall Street Journal reporters and authors of *Surveillance State*, join Aynne Kokas, a digital sovereignty expert from the University of Virginia. They delve into China's ambitious data control efforts, highlighting the role of American tech firms in aiding these strategies. The discussion examines the consequences of biodata collection, especially in Xinjiang, and the rampant surveillance techniques accelerated by COVID-19. The podcast also contrasts China's smart city initiatives with the regulatory challenges faced by Western democracies in managing surveillance and AI.