Former President of The Humane League, David Coman-Hidy, discusses scaling organizations and recognizing the need for change. They also explore the pragmatist vs abolitionist debate in animal advocacy, navigating critiques, and maintaining collaboration in animal activism. The impact of salary and professionalization in organizations is examined, along with the harmful campaign by Adam International. Positive news in the animal world, including achievements of the Open Wing Alliance and New York hospital system's increase in plant-based options, is also discussed.