Damian Kelty-Stephen, an experimental psychologist at SUNY New Paltz, explores the boundaries of ecological psychology and neuroscience. He challenges the conventional computer metaphor of the brain and discusses fractal behaviors linking brain and body. The conversation delves into cascade dynamics and turbulence as key elements of intelligence. Damian advocates for a richer understanding of cognition through multifractal frameworks, emphasizing the complexity of self-organization in both natural and artificial systems.