Casey Rosenthal, Founder of Cirrusly.ai, and John Allspaw, Principal of Adaptive Capacity Labs, delve into the complexities of resilience in software engineering. They emphasize the crucial human factors that influence system reliability and adaptability during failures. The discussion reveals the pitfalls of traditional incident metrics, advocating for an understanding of qualitative impacts on users. Additionally, they tackle the cultural challenges organizations face in incident management, highlighting the need for transparency and better communication.