In this episode, Abi is interviewed by Laura Tacho about the new paper he co-authored with Dr. Nicole Forsgren, Dr. Margaret-Anne Storey, and Dr. Michaela Greiler. Abi and Laura discuss the pitfalls of some of the common metrics organizations use, and how the new paper builds on prior frameworks such as DORA and SPACE to offer a new approach to measuring and improving developer productivity. Discussion topics:(2:20) Laura’s background(3:59) Laura’s view on git metrics(11:05) What developer experience (DevEx) is (14:37) How the authors came together for this paper (18:55) How DORA and SPACE are different(22:38) Limitations of DORA metrics (24:43) Employing the DORA metrics at GitHub(27:47) What the SPACE framework is(30:44) Whether to use DORA or SPACE or both(33:54) Limitations of the SPACE framework(37:29) The need for a new approach (38:46) What the new DevEx paper solves (40:13) The three dimensions of developer experience (40:54) Flow state (43:10) Feedback loops(43:52) Cognitive load (44:51) Why developer sentiment matters(47:58) Using both perceptual and workflow measures(50:59) Examples of perceptual and workflow measures (54:05) How to collect metrics (59:47) How other companies are measuring and improving developer experience(01:02:56) Advice for earlier-stage or growing organizationsResources for learning more about the DevEx framework:Read the new paper on ACM QueueRead Abi’s announcement about the new paper Read how top companies measure developer productivity Connect with Abi and Laura Sign up for Laura’s course, Measuring Development Team PerformanceConnect with Laura on LinkedIn or TwitterConnect with Abi on LinkedIn or Twitter

CTO Laura Tacho and CEO Abi Noda discuss DORA, SPACE, and DevEx frameworks, their benefits, and challenges. They share insights on choosing the right framework, using DORA effectively, and practical applications in organizations.

This week Adam is joined by Abi Noda, founder and CEO of DX to talk about DX AKA DevEx (or the long-form Developer Experience). Since the dawn of software development there has been this push to understand what makes software teams efficient, but more importantly what does it take to understand developer productivity? That’s what Abi has been focused on for the better part of the last 8 years of his career. He started a company called Pull Panda that was acquired by GitHub, spent a few years there on this problem before going out on his own to start DX which helps startups to the fortune 500 companies gather real insights that leads to real improvement. Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 33 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Watch Lazar Nikolov livestream on YouTube at youtube.com/@nikolovlazar. Use the code CHANGELOGMEDIA and get the team plan FREE for six (6) months. Caisy – Caisy is the headless CMS that gives developers endless possibilities. Learn more at caisy.io Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs. Featuring:Abi Noda – Website, GitHub, LinkedInAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes: DX GitHub acquires Pull Panda DevOps Research and Assessment A Better Way to Measure Developer Productivity DevEx: What Actually Drives Productivity How Google Measures and Manages Tech Debt Defining, Measuring, and Managing Technical Debt Changelog Interviews #527: What it takes to scale engineering (with Rachel Potvin) Dr. Nicole Forsgren Joins DX For our ++ subs $STDOUT Changelog Interviews #466: Song Encoder on $STDOUT Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Abi Noda, Co-founder & CEO @ DX returns to the show to discuss his latest research on measuring & improving developer productivity, and provides a practical, developer-focused framework to give you clear, actionable insights into what to measure and where to focus in order to improve developer productivity. Abi reveals the inspiration behind his whitepaper / research, elements of their new DevEx framework, and how eng leaders can implement it into their org’s practice in order to increase developer productivity. We also cover the evolution of measuring developer experience (including output metrics, DORA & SPACE frameworks) and the benefits / shortcomings of each approach. In addition, learn not only the importance of having a dedicated DevEx team, but also how to implement these insights if your org isn’t ready to have a dedicated team yet.ABOUT ABI NODAAbi (@abinoda) is the CEO and co-founder of DX, the world's first developer experience management platform. He was previously the CEO and founder of Pull Panda, which was acquired by GitHub in 2019. At GitHub he led research collaborations with Dr. Nicole Forsgren, McKinsey, and Microsoft Research, which was the impetus for founding DX."Oftentimes, organizations that are larger that get started with these types of measurements in their framework, they're really surprised. They realize that, 'Oh man, there's all these opportunities we didn't even realize and developers are telling us these are the most important things. These aren't the things we're working on and we need to shift our focus.' So, I think there's a huge opportunity to refocus by getting a holistic picture of the developer experience.”- Abi Noda   Join us at ELC Annual 2023!ELC Annual is our flagship conference for engineering leaders. You’ll learn from experts in engineering and leadership, gain mentorship and support from like-minded professionals, expand your perspectives, build relationships across the tech industry, and leave with practical prove strategies.Join us this August 30-31 at the Fort Mason Center in San FranciscoFor tickets, head to https://sfelc.com/annual2023SHOW NOTES:The background behind Abi’s developer productivity research & why it matters (2:50)The evolution of measuring developer productivity (5:50)Moving beyond output metrics to DORA (and how that fell short of solving engineering measurement problems) (7:43)Challenges, drawbacks, and limitations to current measurement approaches (like DORA & SPACE) (11:51)What is the SPACE framework & how it manifests in eng orgs (15:14)Distinction between measuring the notion of productivity vs. focusing on measurements that improve productivity (17:07)Overview of Abi’s new DevEx framework & examples of it in use (19:52)Recommendations for frontline managers, ICs, engineers, etc. to apply the DevEx framework (22:26)How DevEx uncovers blind spots (like requirements quality) (24:21)When engineering orgs should consider separating out productivity (27:44)Strategies for broad-scope leaders to apply the DevEx framework (29:21)Using local teams to address specific DevEx issues (31:30)Why the VP of Eng / org leadership’s values drive developer experience (33:00)Tips for implementing the DevEx framework as a startup vs. mature company (35:06)How Abi is incorporating DevEx strategies into his own company @ DX (37:47)What positive developer experience looks like within an eng team (39:35)The most important step a team w/o a DevEx team can take (41:29)Rapid fire questions (43:17)LINKS AND RESOURCESAbi’s new DevEx whitepaper - “DevEx: What Actually Drives Productivity” by Abi Noda, DX, Margaret-Anne Storey, University of Victoria, Nicole Forsgren, Microsoft Research, Michaela Greiler, DXObviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It - Obviously Awesome goes beyond teaching you what positioning is and why you should care. It gives you a step-by-step process that any startup can follow to position their product, service or company. This book will teach you how to find your product’s “secret sauce” and then sell that sauce to those who crave it.Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind - The first book to deal with the problems of communicating to a skeptical, media-blitzed public, Positioning describes a revolutionary approach to creating a "position" in a prospective customer's mind-one that reflects a company's own strengths and weaknesses as well as those of its competitors.This episode wouldn’t have been possible without the help of our incredible production team:Patrick Gallagher - Producer & Co-HostJerry Li - Co-HostNoah Olberding - Associate Producer, Audio & Video Editor https://www.linkedin.com/in/noah-olberding/Dan Overheim - Audio Engineer, Dan’s also an avid 3D printer - https://www.bnd3d.com/Ellie Coggins Angus - Copywriter, Check out her other work at https://elliecoggins.com/about/

“The three core dimensions of developer experience are feedback loops, cognitive load, and flow state." Margaret-Anne (Peggy) Storey and Abi Noda are the coauthors of the recently published ACM paper “DevEx: What Actually Drives Productivity”. In this episode, we discussed how we can better measure and improve developer productivity using a developer-centric approach. Peggy and Abi first began by explaining the importance of socio-technical factors in software development. They also shared their view on the well-known SPACE and DORA metrics, and pointed out the danger of misusing and abusing the DORA metrics. Peggy and Abi then explained the three core dimensions of developer experience from their latest paper, which are feedback loops, cognitive load, and flow state. Towards the end, Peggy and Abi shared tips on how we can start measuring developer experience, including how to conduct developer surveys properly.   Listen out for: Career Journey - [00:04:09] First Developer Experience Paper - [00:06:19] Socio-Technical Factors - [00:07:37] SPACE & DORA Metrics - [00:13:35] Misuse and Abuse of DORA Metrics - [00:18:52] New Developer Experience Paper - [00:22:29] Developer Experience - [00:24:55] 3 Core Dimensions - [00:28:11] Optimizing Feedback Loops - [00:32:44] Cognitive Load - [00:37:06] Flow State - [00:40:32] Importance of Culture - [00:46:25] Measuring Developer Experience - [00:50:27] Conducting Survey - [00:54:29] 3 Tech Lead Wisdom - [01:00:10] _____ Margaret-Anne Storey’s BioMargaret-Anne (Peggy) Storey is a professor of computer science at the University of Victoria and holds a Canada Research Chair in human and social aspects of software engineering. Her research focuses on improving processes, tools, communication, and collaboration in software engineering. She serves as chief scientist at DX and consults with Microsoft to improve developer productivity. Abi Noda’s BioAbi Noda is the founder and CEO at DX, where he leads the company’s strategic direction and R&D efforts. His work focuses on developing measurement methods to help organizations improve developer experience and productivity. Before joining DX, Noda held engineering leadership roles at various companies and founded Pull Panda, which was acquired by GitHub in 2019. For more information, visit his website at abinoda.com. Follow Margaret: LinkedIn – linkedin.com/in/margaret-anne-storey-8419462 Twitter – @margaretstorey Follow Abi: LinkedIn – linkedin.com/in/abinoda Twitter – @abinoda Newsletter – newsletter.abinoda.com _____ Our Sponsors Are you looking for a new cool swag? Tech Lead Journal now offers you some swags that you can purchase online. These swags are printed on-demand based on your preference, and will be delivered safely to you all over the world where shipping is available. Check out all the cool swags available by visiting techleadjournal.dev/shop. And don't forget to brag yourself once you receive any of those swags. Like this episode? Show notes & transcript: techleadjournal.dev/episodes/134. Follow @techleadjournal on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Buy me a coffee or become a patron.