In this engaging discussion, Abdullah Fayyad, a Vox writer focused on race and class issues, teams up with Eric Ellis, CEO of Integrity Development, to dissect the current backlash against corporate DEI initiatives. They explore how these efforts have evolved from mere compliance to attempts at real systemic change, revealing the tensions between performative actions and authentic commitments. The duo also highlights the impact of political shifts and social movements on these initiatives, emphasizing the necessity for genuine dialogue to foster meaningful change in workplaces.