Episode 69: Francis Lucille (Moderated by Simon Mundie)
Apr 23, 2024
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Author and non-duality teacher Francis Lucille joins Rupert Spira in a fascinating conversation exploring non-duality, enlightenment, and the projection of perfection onto spiritual teachers. They discuss their differing approaches, the journey to realization, embracing imperfection in spiritual guides, and navigating paths of spiritual realization. The podcast emphasizes friendship over the teacher-student dynamic in sharing truth with others.
Non-duality emphasizes the peaceful nature of inner self shared by all.
Francis recounts journey from science to embracing non-duality through exploration.
Awareness as the reality leads to liberation and ongoing perception refinement.
Deep dives
Understanding Non-Duality: Rupert and Francis' Discussion
The core concept of non-duality is shared by Rupert and Francis, focusing on the inherent peaceful and fulfilled nature of being shared by everyone and everything. Rupert highlights the peaceful nature of the inner self, while Francis emphasizes the unified reality experiencing itself as consciousness. This understanding leads to discussions on aligning one's life with this realization and the ongoing process of realigning one's perceptions and actions.
Francis' Journey to Non-Duality
Francis recounts his journey from a background in science to embracing non-duality. His pivotal moments include experiencing deep dissatisfaction and seeking peace and happiness, which ultimately led him to a spiritual path. Meeting his teacher, Jean Klein, sparked a profound shift in his understanding, emphasizing the importance of aligning with the truth through direct experience and exploration.
The Essence of Awareness and Liberation
Francis delves into the essence of awareness, highlighting that recognizing awareness as the reality of the world, body, and mind leads to liberation. He discusses the transformation from perceiving awareness as body-dependent to realizing its immortality and absolute happiness. The alignment with this understanding marks the beginning of true liberation and the ongoing process of refining one's perception.
Continual Evolution in Teaching Approaches
Rupert's teaching approach has evolved over time, transitioning from self-inquiry to emphasizing resting in being. This evolution parallels his artistic journey, focusing on refinement and simplicity in both endeavors. The shift in language and approach reflects a natural evolution in conveying the timeless core teachings of non-duality, emphasizing the essence of being and aligning one's life with this realization.
Evolution of Pathways in Non-Duality
The speaker discusses the evolution of pathways in understanding non-duality, highlighting a shift towards simpler, more experiential approaches over time. Through the example of meditation, he illustrates how the pathway to self-realization has become shorter and more direct, leading to resting in being. This evolution emphasizes a progression from traditional teachings inherited from others to a more direct and personal experience of being aware.
Experimental Approach to Self-Inquiry
The podcast delves into the importance of conducting experiments in self-inquiry to transcend the belief in being separate. By being open to the possibility of universal consciousness and engaging in experiential paths, individuals can shift their perception towards unity. The speaker suggests questioning one's identification with the body and exploring consciousness independently, leading to a deeper understanding of self as consciousness rather than physical form.
In this episode, author and broadcaster Simon Mundie moderates a delightful conversation with Rupert and Francis Lucille. They discuss a wide range of topics including non-duality, its implications, the similarities and differences between Rupert’s and Francis’s approach, and how their relationship evolved from one of student and teacher to one based on friendship.
They delve into their histories and influences, their different styles and ways of expressing the non-dual understanding, and various aspects of fundamental reality. They also explore enlightenment, the ‘hard problem of consciousness’, and the projection of perfection onto those who are considered to be so-called spiritual teachers. In fact, the two assert that rather than being considered teachers, that people view them as friends sharing truth with friends.
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