In this episode, author and broadcaster Simon Mundie moderates a delightful conversation with Rupert and Francis Lucille. They discuss a wide range of topics including non-duality, its implications, the similarities and differences between Rupert’s and Francis’s approach, and how their relationship evolved from one of student and teacher to one based on friendship.

They delve into their histories and influences, their different styles and ways of expressing the non-dual understanding, and various aspects of fundamental reality. They also explore enlightenment, the ‘hard problem of consciousness’, and the projection of perfection onto those who are considered to be so-called spiritual teachers. In fact, the two assert that rather than being considered teachers, that people view them as friends sharing truth with friends.