Up First from NPR National Security, Unlocked
21 snips
Oct 5, 2025 
Mary Louise Kelly, a seasoned national security journalist and the host of NPR's new podcast Sources and Methods, dives deep into the world of intelligence and defense reporting. She shares her fearless interviewing style, including a viral moment with Mike Pompeo over Ukraine that highlighted journalistic accountability. Kelly discusses the intricacies of reporting on secretive agencies and the significance of source protection. Her insights from war zones like Ukraine and her thoughts on renaming the Defense Department add depth to this critical conversation.
AI Snips
Chapters
Transcript
Episode notes
Confrontation With Pompeo
- Mary Louise Kelly pressed Secretary Mike Pompeo on Ukraine and would not back down despite his anger.
- After the interview Pompeo berated Kelly in a private living room, using profanity and challenging her questions.
The Title Explains The Approach
- 'Sources and Methods' borrows an intelligence term to highlight how journalists gather and protect information.
- Kelly argues reporters also must protect sources and explain how intelligence is produced to the public.
Why The National Security Beat Is Unique
- Covering intelligence is uniquely challenging because agencies intentionally keep operations secret.
- That secrecy forces reporters to rely on cultivated sources and creative reporting techniques.