
The Lawfare Podcast Rational Security: The “Pickled Fish in Cozy Sweaters” Edition
Oct 22, 2025
Anastasiia Lapatina, a Ukraine Fellow and correspondent from Kyiv, discusses Ukraine's fatigue over U.S. pressure for territorial concessions. Loren Voss, a Public Service Fellow, analyzes Trump's inconsistent approach to Ukraine, highlighting his misunderstanding of its stakes. Eric Columbus, Senior Editor, warns about the risks of making unfavorable concessions amidst political pressures. The conversation also dives into the Supreme Court's involvement in domestic military deployments and the legal concerns surrounding labeling ANTIFA as domestic terrorism.
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Oslo Visit And Culinary Confessions
- Anastasiia Lapatina described visiting Oslo and meeting Norwegian officials who praised Rational Security.
- She also recounted trying local foods like whale and considering pickled fish too exotic.
Deal-Seeking Drives Trump's Conflict Approach
- Trump's focus is on brokering political deals quickly, treating conflicts as negotiable wins for his legacy.
- That bargaining instinct risks pressuring Ukraine to accept territorial compromises harmful to long-term security.
Supreme Court Fight Over 12406 Deference
- Central legal fight: whether 10 U.S.C. 12406 mobilization decisions are judicially reviewable and what standard applies.
- The outcome will shape presidential deference for domestic troop deployments and related constitutional questions.



