The Burnt Toast Podcast "You Are Not Considered a Whole Person After a Certain Age."
Today Virginia is chatting with Debra Benfield, RDN. Debra has helped hundreds of women heal their relationship with food eating in their bodies over her 35-year career as a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist specializing in the prevention and treatment of disordered eating, and brings her passion, expertise, and lived experience to the intersection of pro-aging and body liberation work. Deb’s work is rooted in helping clients recognize internalized ageism and end it, dismantle internalized diet culture and fatphobia, nourish their bodies to support vitality and aging and develop a respectful partnership with their bodies.
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And don't forget to preorder! Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture comes out April 25, 2023 from Henry Holt. You can preorder your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. And! You can now preorder the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.
Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.
BUTTER & OTHER LINKS
Follow Deb @agingbodyliberation (Facebook)
Deb's small group coaching that focuses on aging with vitality and body liberation
grappling with feelings about our aging bodies
that Emma Thompson conversation
Ashton Applewhite's TED talk
Ageism Unmasked: Exploring Age Bias and How to End It
Breaking the Age Code: How Your Beliefs about Aging Determine How Long and Well You Live
How Not to Drown in a Glass of Water
CREDITS
The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter. Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing. The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe. Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell. Tommy Harron is our audio engineer. Thanks for listening and for supporting independent anti-diet journalism.
Episode 81 Transcript
Deb
So, I turned 60 four years ago. And when that happened, I got curious about what the research was saying about aging and how to make choices to support myself. And I was hit very hard with things that I shouldn’t be surprised by, but I was surprised to see, like how loud and obnoxious the diet and wellness industry messages were in that entire pro-aging culture, not to mention the thin bodies. Since all that happened and my frustration with it, I’ve headed in a direction to provide and create something that I was looking for myself.
Virginia
You reached out to me about having this conversation after I’d written a little bit about grappling with feelings about our aging bodies. As I said in that piece, I’ll be 42 this year. So I’m fairly new to thinking about ageism in anything other than the abstract, but it is clearly time I start learning about it. So I’m eager to be doing this work. and I’m eager to talk with you about how it intersects with anti-fat bias. I think we should start with the ageism piece. What is ageism? How does it show up in the world?
Deb
Ageism is having a preconceived notion or storyline or a prejudiced view of another person or your own self based on age or perception of age. The way it shows up in the world is complicated in that we have so many myths about aging. I have two grandchildren, one and three, that I read stories to and—you probably hear this all the time—you just want to edit, edit, edit. The stories about the old characters are just all atrocious. The parallels with the anti-fat bias are compelling and we can talk about that, but the myths about old people being unhappy and grumpy and rigid and having a closed mindset and not being interested in new things, or sex, or pleasure and being depressed and certainly being less capable and having a poor memory.
Virginia
On the many list of possible stereotypes, I think you’ve named the greatest hits.
Deb
When it comes to how we see our bodies, I think we’ve all internalized that without question and hold anxiety for what our bodies and our experiences will be like as we age. I have many people that as I start to talk to them say, “Well, I’ve been thinking about this since I was 25,” or “I started thinking about Botox when I was in my 20s,” and “It’s happening earlier than I expected.” I think that’s more true now. I have a very wise, dear friend who is now talking to her teenagers about how they see aging, because it’s going to happen to everybody if we’re lucky.
Virginia
Exactly. It is the goal, to get to age. But I think you’re right. We render people invisible as they get older, especially women and other marginalized folks. And we know that in workplaces, ageism becomes a factor at age 35, for women, that’s when it starts. The pressure to start fighting your aging is happening well before you’re actually aging.
Deb
It feels really messed up.
Virginia
Since you mentioned reading books to your grandchildren? Do you have the book The Truth About Grandparents? Is that in your collection?
Deb
No! I need to get that one.
Virginia
It’s by Elina Ellis and it is just a marvelous book. It’s like, “the truth about grandparents is they don’t like to have fun,” and the illustrations are the grandparents being silly and adventurous. “They don’t like to dance,” and they’re dancing, and they don’t care about romance and they’re kissing. It’s just a beautiful, positive depiction of how wonderful grandparents are. What I really love is the grandmother is fat. She’s just fat and doing yoga and doing all these great things.
Deb
Thank you for telling me about that.
Virginia
Now let’s get into how you see ageism paralleling anti-fat bias. And if you think there are differences.
Deb
One of the things that I think is just—I grab my head every time it happens—is when I hear anti-aging activists talk about the phenomenon of ageism. Almost every single one says “this is the last unchallenged prejudice.” And that is because they aren’t as aware about the reality that anti-fat bias is also, and maybe more so.
Virginia
I do think we in general need to get away from this whole “last bias” because I mean, there’s also ableism. There’s a little bit of hubris in the idea that you’ve identified the one last bias.
Deb
And ableism is so mixed into this, too. Thank you so much for saying that because it’s definitely in there.
The other thing I think is true is that we have medicalized both and created huge industry about addressing those naturally occurring phenomena. Biodiversity and aging are both normal and natural and they have become the object of industry, including medicine and pharmaceuticals. The more I read about anti-aging to familiarize myself with the bullshit, the more I see it’s just all the same mess that I’m accustomed to seeing with the anti-fat bias. There is an American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
Virginia
Wow. And how are they preventing aging?
Deb
Well, they’re doing all the research. They’re doing all the research on dieting and also pharmaceuticals. And lots of stuff about our brains.
Virginia
I just love that no one at that association has thought about the impossibility of that name for the group. Like anti-aging medicine. We literally can’t stop dying.
Deb
Yeah, well maybe you need to check them out because they are there to sell you on the fact that perhaps they can.
Virginia
It’s real.
Deb
I’m also curious about the spectrum. We talk a lot about the spectrum of fatness and it’s the same when you talk to people about age. They have young-old, middle-old, and old. I’m not kidding! The same thing. I mean, I’m actually young-old, as a 64 year old. They start talking about being elderly when you’re 55.
Virginia
Elderly, but still young old.
Deb
Senior—I mean, all the words.
Virginia
Well, and again, it’s going to vary so much on your context, right? Like, what is elderly in Hollywood vs what is elderly in Michigan?
Deb
Yeah, or with pregnancy.
Virginia
And what’s elderly for women is different than for men.
Deb
So true. And people have such strong reactions. I am not a fan of the word senior. But I am cool with elderhood. I’m way cool with being an elder. I’m cool with being old. I’m cool with that.
Virginia
What is it about senior you don’t like?
Deb
It feels condescending. It feels like it just doesn’t apply. I mean, it’s nice if I’m getting a discount at the movie theater. Senior discount.
Virginia
Yeah. Take that discount. I agree, “elder” sounds wise.
Deb
But elderly…
Virginia
That’s more frail, fragile. There are different implications. That’s so interesting. I haven’t thought a lot about these words.
Deb
And they’re probably different for different people.
Virginia
I really bristle when you see a waiter in a restaurant talk to an older person and say, “Come along, young lady.” That is so condescending to me.
Deb
Elder speak.
Virginia
It’s a way of talking to elders and infantilizing them, right?
Deb
I’ve had the experience already and it is not pleasant.
Virginia
What did you say? Is there anything to say in the moment?
Deb
I was shocked, since I’m a young old. No, it was like, damn, this just happened. She just called me sweetie. I mean, I knew what she was doing. And when I’ve told the story to my friends, they are like, “Oh, she was just being nice.”
Virginia
Like gaslighting. “She didn’t mean anything by it.”
Deb
And when it comes to your experience in medicine, that’s another parallel. You are not considered a whole person after a certain age. There are many, many stories of not being looked at, not being spoken to, somebody looking at the other person with you. Or looking at your age first, and assuming that your age that is the issue. Like Ashton Applewhite, I don’t know if you’re familiar with her work, highly recommend her TED talk, she’s amazing. She talks about going into the doctor with a 64 year old body saying like, my knee hurts. And immediately the doctor talks about her age and she’s like, “but the other knee is the same age.”
Virginia
I have two 64 year old knees.
Deb
Why is one fine?
Virginia
I remember a conversation with my step-grandmother when she was probably 82 or 83, somewhere around there. For some reason, we were having like a family-wide discussion about how we felt about our ages, and we asked her, how do you feel about it? And she said, “It seems to be my primary characteristic now. It’s what I’m constantly reduced to.” And that was a real moment for me. It made me realize how much I was reducing her to her age. I thought of her as this frail old lady that we had to help in and out of the house, and take care of, because she was having mobility challenges. That was a moment for me to reckon with like, right, everyone in this room has reduced to your age in a way that’s really problematic.
Deb
So much loss.
Virginia
I don’t know, I hope we did better after that, but we probably didn’t do enough.
Deb
The hope is that this movement that is starting to happen and is going to shift and change things for people, especially women as they approach this 50+ menopausal, postmenopausal reality. That’s my hope is that this conversation is going to get loud.
Virginia
As you’re talking to folks about their own experiences of aging and trying to shift to a pro-aging movement and a pro-aging conversation, how do you think about individual choices about things like Botox? Because I want to hold space for the fact that there are workplaces or contexts where a lot of this feels necessary as a survival strategy. And yet, we need to examine these choices and how we’re being complicit in perpetuating the bias.
Deb
I think as a feminist, this has been an entire lifetime of curiosity about what I feel about augmentations and procedures and cosmetics and so many things. I try just to let women do what they need to do. I don’t know what else to do other than let women have their autonomy and make their choices.
Virginia
If we believe in body liberation, we have to believe in body liberation.
Deb
It’s not my first thought. I have to get to that, sometimes. I have to talk myself into that place.
Virginia
Yes, that makes sense.
Deb
I can make some judgments real quick.
Virginia
Yes. I’m good at that, but I would like to be less good at it.
Deb
You do you. I understand it just like I understand people who want to be thin. This world makes it very hard to have a body—an aging body, a larger body. But my go-to is Sonya Renee Taylor’s work, that’s where I go. And understanding that the default body is real. It doesn’t feel safe or like you have any power or like you belong if you are in any way other than the default. To try to remember that and have compassion for people still wanting to pass as thin, pass as young, pass as whatever they need to pass to feel safer and like they have some power in their lives.
Virginia
It seems like there is still value in naming it for ourselves. Naming that I’m dying my gray hair because of X, Y, and Z reasons, even if you’re not making a different choice, even if it doesn’t feel safe to make a different choice, even if this is the choice you just really want to make. Like understanding the larger context feels really important.
Deb
Women who are talking about the going gray phenomenon, since COVID kind of accelerated that for a lot of people, talk a lot about how differently they’re treated. Same as when people lose weight, how differently they’re treated. It feels good to feel like you belong, it feels good to feel like you are relevant. And it can be frightening to feel like you’re no longer as relevant. So, it’s quite the process. And now we’re talking about why aging actually makes you more vulnerable to diet and wellness culture.
Virginia
Say more about that.
Deb
Because of the fear of irrelevance, because of the fear of being frail, alone. For all of those stories that we carry about aging, all of the fear and anxiety that we carry about aging, it makes us feel somewhat protected from those things coming true if we hold onto thinness. Because every—and I mean every, please show me where I’m wrong—EVERY pro-aging account that I’ve been able to find holds up a thin, white, silver haired woman. Sometimes they’re brown or Black. Sometimes there is more diversity, but they’re thin. Really thin. And there’s something about bringing with that, that you’re still hip, you’re still relevant, you’re still vital, you’re still capable, that you’re at least thin. So there’s some interesting vulnerability that I think women as they age have, for falling into the trap.
I talk to women all day and what they tell me is, I was doing well in my recovery or my intuitive eating. I was doing really well until the doctor said something or this health scare happened—breast cancer, something happened. And they start to associate losing weight, and sometimes they’re told losing weight will protect them from a recurrence or from an accelerated disease process. So there’s kind of a double whammy happening.
Virginia
Yeah, I’ve definitely heard from older women who’ve said something like, “Well, that’s fine when you’re under 50. But once you get over 50, the health issues mean that you have to eat this way. You have to follow these rules about eating.” They don’t feel included in conversations around intuitive eating or not dieting, because they believe that the health risks are more present for them.1 I think a lot of that has to do with the narrative they’re getting from doctors and health care providers about what aging means and and how weight needs to play into it.
I’m also thinking about how when you’re talking about the pro-aging accounts featuring thin women, and I think fat folks experience ageism probably sooner in some ways. This sounds similar to the narrative I hear around moms feeling like they have to ‘get their body back’ because they can’t look like a fat mom. It’s like, you’ve given up some relevancy by becoming a mom, right? Even though you’ve obviously had sex to become a mom, you are somehow now not a sexual being, not desirable because you’re a mother. So you have to hold onto thinness because becoming a fat mom is like, sad. The mom bod thing is such a sad failure. The way we talk about mom jeans or mom hair, all of this is very ageist as well as very fatphobic at the same time.
Deb
I haven’t thought about what happens when a woman becomes mom because it’s so true that there’s so much pressure. And that’s what I mean, same for as you age, there’s so much pressure to hold onto this identity, to be relevant and worthy based on thinness.
Virginia
And sexually appealing. What you’re saying is that it is not impossible to age or be fat or be a mother and be worthy and sexually appealing and valuable. You’re saying these things are not mutually exclusive.
Deb
Not at all.
Virginia
Of course they aren’t.
Deb
And I also just want to say, because I know there are there are folks that are not in the US, what I see in other countries is that there are. There’s much more biodiversity around the pro-aging conversation outside of this country. So I have seen it. I just haven’t seen it in the USA. And I don’t know what that’s about. What is that?
Virginia
The power of the dermatology lobby here?
Deb
And Hollywood?
Virginia
I mean, we’re in it deep. We’re in it deep for sure.
Deb
We’ve got things to learn. We’re adolescent in our learning.
Virginia
Another thing that you’ve hit on a little bit already is the reality that there is a lot of unchecked ageism in the fat activism community, and, as you mentioned, a lot of unchecked anti-fatness in the pro-aging community. What do you think this disconnect is about?
Deb
I think that I have spoken to folks in the anti-fat bias community and have been well received. I have not been well received when I speak up the pro aging community.
Virginia
Oh, interesting.
Deb
And I’m trying to figure out what that is there. I just think we have so much work to do around anti-fat bias. That’s my hunch: That anti-fat bias is just so deeply held and pushes up against the health conversation, the fear around the risk that I think is also so deeply biased. And people are seemingly not interested in looking at that more deeply. Whereas I think in the anti-fat bias community, I think they’re like, “Oh, yeah, thanks for letting me know.”
Virginia
I’m glad to hear that’s been your experience. When we look at the way the body positivity conversation has centered young, thinner, white women, I do think there’s a celebration of youth that can be problematic in these spaces. Probably the number one question I get from readers is “How do I talk to my mother?” and the reader is a millennial and the mother is a Boomer. How do I get her to stop being so harmful about these issues?”
So this is something I spend a lot of time thinking about: How do we have these intergenerational conversations and hold space for the harm that the Boomer mother has experienced, because that’s so many decades of anti-fat bias. But there also often is, coming from the millennials, a dismissiveness of that. And it’s coming from the fact that you’ve experienced harm from this person and the relationship is complicated. But it is also important to not just write off this generation, and think, “Well, they’re Boomers, they can’t get it,” you know? That “okay, Boomer” attitude is ageism and is really harmful.
Deb
I have both experiences. I have mothers saying that they really want to help their daughters who are caught up in their own diet culture, their own way of feeding their grandchildren that they find problematic. I think it’s maybe less common, but I hear both mothers and daughters saying can I refer my my mom or my daughter?
Virginia
So that shows us —Not all Boomers, guys!
Deb
Well, I’m a Boomer.
Virginia
Right, right.
Deb
I think a thread that we’ve started in these conversations is that this multigenerational conversation that needs to happen. And the frustration for me is that I got books to send. I got so many books to send, when it’s like, let me help you educate your daughter—like your upcoming book is on the list! But the other way, not so much. There’s this big need for this conversation. I do think grandparents feed a lot of kids, sometimes raise kids, sometimes do after school, kids on the weekends, and also make lots of comments around bodies. So it’s a very important conversation and the dismissiveness is not helping.
Virginia
No, it’s not fostering a dialogue.
Deb
It’s protective of the kid to include mom and grandparents and everybody at the table, literally.
Virginia
I do think we should name the problem of white feminism showing up in these spaces.
Deb
For me, personally, as a kiddo that identified as a feminist like way back in the late 60s, early 70s, I was all in. And I noticed the white thinness. And I really noticed it, of course, the more I started doing this work. I felt like the body was being left out. I just felt like the body was being left out the conversation. So I think that’s carried through. Maybe the body is going to be included in the conversation now. I don’t know, in a different way with Roe v. Wade and body autonomy meaning so much right now, the body in general is a bigger part of the conversation again.
Virginia
Yeah, thanks for that, guys.
Deb
Can’t believe it, but here we are. And that’s what I noticed is that it feels like it just got totally left out.
Virginia
In the charge for equal pay and women being able to build careers. That’s the version of white feminism we’re talking about—the lean in model, the girl boss model.
Deb
Which stayed really thin. And so power equals thinness. My clients talk a lot about feeling vulnerable when they feel soft. There’s a lot of vulnerability with feminine identity, with curves with flesh. That’s vulnerable, uncomfortable in the patriarchal world we live in.
That’s what you get when you age. You get soft. You get soft and the push is to get in the grind and do your strength training and drop your carbs and get rid of the belly fat. That’s the conversation which is very much like post-mom, there’s a lot of parallel there.
Virginia
Absolutely.
Deb
So there’s a vulnerability that I think we need to keep talking about. I don’t know if it’s real or if it’s perceived, because of buying patriarchal stories.
Virginia
It feels very tied to what we were talking to before about relevancy and erasure and wanting to fight that.
Deb
Very much.
Virginia
And this is also just making me think about how much the conversation around menopause is not happening in the way it needs to. That’s another version of erasing older women’s experiences.
Deb
Yeah the a menopause conversation is really so simplified to what I just said: Do your strength training and really don’t eat carbs. It feels like it’s just those two issues over and over and over again. And that I challenge on the regular. It’s not nuanced. I personally am way postmenopausal, and I feel like it’s a powerful, exciting time of life.
Virginia
That’s awesome.
Deb
A lot has dropped away that I feel like it was bubblegum on my shoe. Now there’s much more potential for me to have energy for other things. And I don’t hear people talking about that! It’s so fear-based.
Virginia
We’re not hearing about that. How do you feel like you have more energy? What’s changed?
Deb
I think estrogen biologically orients us toward our family and caring for others. And the drop of that allows for you to shift your attention toward yourself in a way that our culture doesn’t necessarily feel comfortable with.
I mean, you have to be willing to do that. It’s not going to fall in your lap. Because the culture is still going the other way. But I think it has huge potential for shifting your energy toward an exciting time. And, you know, Emma Thompson, I’m sure you saw that Emma Thompson conversation, which I adored, mostly.
Virginia
Same.
Deb
What if we stop wasting our time with that? I mean, it’s such a time suck, energy suck, life suck. We know that.
Virginia
Here’s this opportunity, this stage of life, that can be something really exciting and different and new. And instead you’re buying into this narrative that’s like, how can you be exactly what you’ve always been? And how can you still be as small as possible?
Deb
How can you shrink and diminish your voice? How can you stay in line? And where I see people saying that, which is so frustrating to me, is the pro-aging folks. They’re all about like, “Women still want to feel sexy. Women still want to look a certain way.” So there’s still this emphasis on thinness.
Virginia
That’s not rejecting the premise. That’s not saying you can still be a sexual person who’s not thin. That’s just trying to hold on to this thing. That doesn’t feel pro-aging to me.
Deb
Right but that’s what its called, if you look at the hashtag.
Virginia
I’m just so grateful that you are pushing us and pushing this conversation because it just feels very maddening that you’re finding someone having the conversation and then realizing they’re having the same old conversation.
Deb
And they’re not willing to engage. Very defensive. That’s where the white feminism parallel is—that fragility and defensiveness. Absolutely. “But I was just trying to do a good thing here.”
Virginia
Well, to that, then, what can we be working for? What new conversations can we be pushing? How do we start to do this advocacy for a true pro-aging movement?
Deb
The potential for not buying into the loss of menopause. I mean, I don’t want to not acknowledge the loss. But there’s so much more. It feels like we’ve really focused in because there’s a lot to sell there. There are a lot of products and programs to sell, like same with addressing your hormone balance.
Women are so many things and there’s potential for staying with your growth and your excitement and your dreams as a woman who is aging. I feel like that’s one of the most important things. That can look so many ways in so many kinds of bodies. Can we just please look at some diversity? That’s my number one issue. I want some diversity. Bring me some diversity in the bodies, all the things.
Virginia
Yeah, and as you’re saying that I’m realizing we’re talking a lot about menopause and we’re talking a lot about women and we need gender diversity here, too, right? We need examples of elder trans folks and elder non-binary folks. How are we seeing those body stories centered and celebrated here? That’s another piece.
Deb
Yes, that certainly needs to happen, too.
Virginia
It’s definitely an opportunity to do some reflection on where your aging biases show up and how it’s manifesting. And what comments and terms do we need to start challenging? I think that’s all really important work. I really appreciate you helping us start this conversation in Burnt Toast.
Deb
Can I recommend a couple of books if people want to do that work?
Virginia
Please, yes!
Deb
I’ve already mentioned Ashton Applewhite and her TED talk is a great starting place. Tracey Gendron has written a book called Ageism Unmasked: Exploring Age Bias and How to End It which has zero fatphobia. Because I’m reading all of these with that lens intact—and I’ve thrown away a lot of books!
Virginia
This is a curated list.
Deb
And Breaking the Age Code: How Your Beliefs about Aging Determine How Long and Well You Live by Becca Levy. I don’t know if you’ve heard about her research, but she actually showed that your attitude around aging can alter your lifespan by seven and a half years. Her book and her research is mind blowingly important. It’s a bigger undertaking. So both of those books to me would be great places for people to go.
Butter
Virginia
Well in since we’ve gotten into recommendations, we can do butter which is our recommendation segment. Do you have any other recommendation you?
Deb
I’m going to have a hard time limiting it! “Sort Of” on HBO is just—I love it so much. So tender, such a tender story line. I adored it. And Angie Cruz, How Not to Drown in a Glass of Water.
Virginia
Oh, I have that in my to-read pile! I’m dying to get to it.
Deb
I can’t stop. That’s how you know something’s so good. I feel like I am changed on a cellular level and I can’t get it out of my mind. Her voice is in my mind. Love, love that book.
Virginia
Well, those are excellent recommendations.
Related to books, my butter this week is in-person book clubs. If you’re in a place with your COVID caution that this is doable for you. I know it’s not for everyone. Zoom book clubs are also great, but I’m in two local book clubs at the moment and we had a meeting of one last week and I have a meeting of one tonight. And I’ve just been thinking about like how much this is something I’ve missed in the past few years is being able to have in depth conversations with folks about books that I love.
The book club last week we read Kiese Laymon’s Heavy. I actually listened to the audiobook this time, which, talk about being changed on a cellular level. Listening to Kiese read that book is just—there’s an extra recommendation for you. If you haven’t done it, it’s a work of art. And the conversation my book club had was just so fulfilling and special.
It’s a great way to connect with friends, to connect with new people. I’m just really feeling book clubs and the power of them right now. And I’m saying this not just because I’m an author with a book coming out that would be a great book club pick!
I have another one that’s some local women, other mom friends—that’s the one I’m going to tonight. I’ve been excited all day because like we all get to leave our kids at home and come together and do this thing that we really love. It’s been really special. So, if you’re not in a book club, but you are a reader—I was sort of resistant to them for a while for reasons I can’t even remember because it’s just a wonderful opportunity for community
Deb
Can I mention a book club story. I don’t know if you remember this, but when you wrote your first book, do you remember that you came to our book club virtually?
Virginia
Yes. That was like, pre-Zoom? I don’t know how we even did it?
Deb
I don’t know, but you showed up.
Virginia
That was wonderful.
Deb
I have a client who still says—we’re working on her eating—that when she’s having difficulty accessing hunger sensation, “I feel like Virginia’s baby.”
Virginia
Oh my gosh.
Deb
I just wanted you to know that.
Virginia
Oh, wow. So Deb ran the Body Liberation Book Club. It was a great name for a book club and it was so much fun to come into. That was really cool. It’s just a great opportunity to connect with people. So, Deb, thank you so, so much! This has been a wonderful conversation. Please also tell listeners where they can follow you, what other stuff you have coming up that we should know about.
Deb
Okay, my website is debrabenfield.com. Very straightforward and my socials are @agingbodyliberation (Facebook). I have a group coming up that I’ll do several times, but the next group is going to be the first week in April. That is small group coaching that focuses on aging with vitality and body liberation. We pull together how to navigate everything that we’ve been talking about today, how to dismantle your internalized ageism and diet culture myths and find your way toward your own healing process with practices to support them. And I’m in love with it.
Virginia
Amazing. Thank you so much for being here!
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The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by me, Virginia Sole-Smith. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter.
Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.
The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.
Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.
Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.
Thanks for listening and for supporting independent anti diet journalism. I’ll talk to you soon.
Just want to clarify that I understand health risks often are more present as we age, and don’t mean to downplay that. But intentional weight loss comes with a cost, isn’t sustainable, and rarely results in better health outcomes, at any age.