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20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno

Jan 10, 2025

Mikey Shulman, Co-founder and CEO of Suno, a pioneering music AI company, discusses the future of AI consumer applications and music's evolution. He critiques OpenAI's influence on the industry and emphasizes the importance of good taste in music creation. Shulman also shares insights on emerging music discovery platforms and the ongoing legal battles with major labels. He explores the competition between Spotify, YouTube, and TikTok, envisioning a more inclusive music landscape driven by innovation and collaboration.

57:50

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Episode guests

Mikey Shulman

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Quick takeaways

Mikey Shulman argues that the popular OpenAI interface has led to misconceptions about AI's application in creative domains like music.

Suno's vision centers on transforming listeners into active music creators, fostering deeper engagement and participation in the creative process.

The ongoing lawsuit with the RIAA highlights the tension between AI innovations and traditional music industry practices, emphasizing the need for collaboration.

Deep dives

The Misconception of AI Interfaces

The discussion emphasizes that the interface popularized by OpenAI, specifically the empty text box for ChatGPT, has led to a widespread misconception about AI interactions. This type of interface may work well for certain applications like ChatGPT but is not suited for every AI product, especially those in creative domains such as music. The interview reveals that future advancements in AI may lead to a distinct model release that will ultimately serve as a foundation for various applications. The implication is that the evolving technology will require tailored interfaces that better align with the specific needs and functions of different AI applications.

Innovate for Value, Not Just Form

00:52

Intro

4min

Revolutionizing Music Engagement with Suno

11min

Measuring User Success: Insights into Engagement and Monetization

2min

Navigating the Costs and Collaborations in AI Music

14min

Navigating Music Discovery in the Algorithm Era

6min

Evaluating Candidates and the Dynamics of Remote Work in AI

2min

Navigating AI's Impact on Music

14min

Closing Thoughts and Sponsorship Highlights

4min

Mikey Shulman is the Co-Founder and CEO of Suno, the leading music AI company. Suno lets everyone make and share music. Mikey has raised over $125M for the company from the likes of Lightspeed, Founder Collective and Nat Friedman and Daniel Gross. Prior to founding Suno, Mikey was the first machine learning engineer and head of machine learning at Kensho technologies, which was acquired by S&P Global for over $500 million.

In Today’s Episode with Mikey Shulman:

1. The Future of Models:

Who wins the future of models? Anthropic, OpenAI or X?
Will we live in a world of many smaller models? When does it make sense for specialised vs generalised models?
Does Mikey believe we will continue to see the benefits of scaling laws?

2. The Future of UI and Consumer Apps:

Why does Mikey believe that OpenAI did AI consumer companies a massive disservice?
Why does Mikey believe consumers will not choose their model or pay for a superior model in the future?
Why does Mikey believe that good taste is more important than good skills?
Why does Mikey argue physicists and economists make the best ML engineers?

3. The Future of Music:

What is going on with Suno’s lawsuit against some of the biggest labels in music?
How does Mikey see the future of music discovery?
How does Mikey see the battle between Spotify and YouTube playing out?
How does Mikey see the battle between TikTok and Spotify playing out?

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