The Gray Area with Sean Illing

A Jew and a Muslim get honest about Israel and Gaza

Nov 13, 2023

Shadi Hamid, a columnist for The Washington Post and a research professor of Islamic studies, joins the conversation to delve into the recent surge of violence after Hamas's attack on Israel. He and host Zack Beauchamp discuss the complexities of the Israel-Palestine conflict, emphasizing the need for nuanced dialogue about morality and strategy. They explore the emotional ramifications for Jewish and Muslim communities in the U.S., advocating for solidarity and open discussions to bridge their experiences amid rising tensions.

01:00:29

Episode guests

Shadi Hamid

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Highlights

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Quick takeaways

Hamas's actions aim to provoke Israel into a conflict it cannot sustain, seeking legitimacy and relevance.

Understanding the context behind Hamas' actions contributes to a more comprehensive analysis of the conflict.

Israeli actions are driven by existential insecurity and a desire to protect against historical anti-Semitism and threats.

Deep dives

Understanding Hamas' Motives and Strategies

Hamas's actions, including targeting innocent civilians and provoking Israeli reactions, are aimed at dragging Israel into a conflict it cannot sustain, while also seeking revolutionary legitimacy and relevance.

Understanding Hamas: A Complex Organization and its Tactics

01:52

Israelis' Opinions on Indiscriminate Bombing

01:29

The Issue of Loyalty in Muslim-American Discourse

01:40

Intro

2min

Understanding the Israel-Palestine Conflict

19min

Navigating Challenges: Post-War Gaza and Comfortable Living

3min

Gaza: War, Diplomacy, and Crisis Management

7min

Perceptions of Loss: The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

5min

Global Conflict and Personal Transformations

3min

Navigating Emotion and Identity in Conflict

22min

Understanding Perspectives: Bridging Gaps in Conflict

2min

Zack Beauchamp, a Vox senior correspondent who writes about democracy and Israel, speaks with Shadi Hamid, a columnist at The Washington Post, research professor of Islamic studies at Fuller Seminary, and author of The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea. They discuss the October 7 attack, the subsequent war in Gaza, what it means for Israelis and Palestinians, and how Jews and Muslims in the United States can find common ground amidst their communities’ grief.

This conversation was recorded on November 2, 2023.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent at Vox

Guest: Shadi Hamid, (@shadihamid), columnist and Editorial Board member at The Washington Post, research professor of Islamic studies at Fuller Seminary, and author of The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea.

References:

“Reducing Hamas’s terrorism to a problem of ‘evil’ is a mistake” by Shadi Hamid (The Washington Post, Oct. 2023)

The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea by Shadi Hamid (Oxford University Press, 2022)

“Everything you need to know about Israel-Palestine: A comprehensive guide to the basics of the world’s most controversial conflict” by Zack Beauchamp (Vox)

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This episode was made by:

Engineer: Rob Byers

Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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