In this discussion, Kevin Dutton, a researcher at Oxford and author of 'The Wisdom of Psychopaths,' challenges the conventional view of psychopathy. He reveals how certain psychopathic traits can be advantageous in various careers and explores the surprising idea that the Apostle Paul may have exhibited these traits, contributing to his success as an evangelist. The conversation dives into the distinctions between psychopaths and sociopaths, societal influences on these traits, and even includes a self-assessment test for listeners.
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insights INSIGHT
Psychopathy as a Spectrum
Psychopathy is a spectrum of traits like ruthlessness, fearlessness, and charisma, not just a singular characteristic.
These traits, at the right levels, can be beneficial, especially in certain professions.
insights INSIGHT
Adaptive Psychopathy in Professions
Certain professions benefit from "precision-engineered psychopathy", where specific traits are advantageous.
For example, surgeons need emotional detachment, and lawyers benefit from self-confidence.
question_answer ANECDOTE
Sociopath vs. Psychopath
Dutton illustrates the difference between sociopaths and psychopaths with a bar scenario.
A sociopath might react violently to a spilled drink, while a psychopath might calculate a later, more cold-blooded response.
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What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success
Kevin Dutton
In 'The Wisdom of Psychopaths', Kevin Dutton argues that there are 'functional psychopaths' who use their detached, unflinching, and charismatic personalities to succeed in mainstream society. Dutton uses original scientific research, including brain scanning and neuroscience, to demonstrate that psychopathic traits such as fearlessness, confidence, charm, ruthlessness, and focus can be advantageous in certain professions. He interviews various individuals, including con artists, surgeons, and spies, and even undergoes transcranial magnetic stimulation to experience a psychopathic mindset firsthand. The book suggests that society is becoming more psychopathic and that these traits, in the right doses, can be beneficial for individual and societal success.
When most people think of psychopaths, they think of uniformly monstrous characters who lack empathy and conscience.
But my guest says that those characteristics are just one part of the spectrum of traits that make up psychopathy, and while always having these traits turned up high is indeed bad, when employed to certain degrees in certain circumstances, they can actually be utilized for adaptive, positive ends.
Kevin Dutton is a researcher of experimental psychology at Oxford and the author of The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success. Today on the show, Kevin first defines what makes psychopaths, psychopaths, and how they differ from sociopaths. He describes how psychopathic traits can be particularly useful in some professions and which professions attract the most psychopaths. In the second half of our conversation, Kevin lays out his argument for why he thinks the Apostle Paul was a psychopath and how that’s actually what made him such an effective evangelist. At the end of our conversation, Kevin offers a test that assesses psychopathy; stay tuned to find out if I’m a psychopath and take the test yourself to see if you are.
The Art of Manliness 
