Is Decarbonization Dead?

377 snips

Jul 25, 2025

Guest

Jane Flegal

Guest

Jesse Jenkins

Jesse Jenkins, a leading climate modeler at Princeton, and Jane Flegal, former Biden administration climate policy expert, dive into the impact of recent U.S. climate policies. They discuss the setbacks caused by prior administration rollbacks and outline lessons for future climate strategies. The conversation explores the competitive landscape of the EV market, challenges in clean energy deployment, and the urgent need for a cohesive national strategy. They also touch on the innovative roles of carbon capture technologies and the importance of public trust in geoengineering.

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INSIGHT

Inflation Reduction Act’s Climate Impact

The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) was America’s biggest renewable energy investment ever, aimed at halving emissions by 2030.
It rationalized incentives for all zero-emission technologies but was gutted by the subsequent Republican-led "big, beautiful bill."

INSIGHT

Targeting Wind and Solar Credits

Republicans specifically targeted tax credits for wind and solar, removing them to politically damage mature clean energy sectors.
They retained credits for other zero-emission technologies, reflecting political and ideological fault lines within the party.

INSIGHT

Every Degree Worsens Risk Gradually

Climate science shows risk increases gradually with every degree of warming, not a binary safe/danger zone.
This nuanced understanding demands urgent but flexible policy responses based on societal and technological capacities.

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Biden passed the most ambitious climate legislation in American history. Trump just shredded it. What does that mean for the future of renewable energy in America? Where does the climate movement go from here? And is it too late for us to avert climate catastrophe?

To answer these questions, I invited onto the show two climate experts: Jesse Jenkins, who is a leading climate modeler and a professor at Princeton University, where he runs the Princeton ZERO Lab, and Jane Flegal, who is the executive director of the Blue Horizons Foundation and served on the Biden administration’s climate policy team.

We discuss how far Trump’s policies have set us back, the lessons the climate movement should learn from this loss and what the next wave of climate politics may look like.

Mentioned:

“Impacts of the One Big Beautiful Bill On The US Energy Transition – Summary Report” by REPEAT Project

“There’s a Race to Power the Future. China Is Pulling Away.” by David Gelles, Somini Sengupta, Keith Bradsher and Brad Plumer

Jesse’s Book Recommendations:

Why Nothing Works by Marc J. Dunkelman

Energy by Richard Rhodes

Mars Trilogy Series by Kim Stanley Robinson

Jane’s Book Recommendations:

Mating by Norman Rush

Frontiers of Illusion by Daniel Sarewitz

An Engine, Not a Camera by Donald MacKenzie

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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