Show host Gene Tunny sits down with Professor Cordelia Fine to discuss her latest book, Patriarchy Inc. Professor Fine argues gender biases are embedded in jobs and organizational structures, affecting women's career prospects. Topics include ‘greedy jobs,’ the undervaluation of feminized professions, the limits of diversity programs, and the role of evolutionary psychology in shaping gender assumptions. Whether you agree or disagree, this discussion offers a fresh perspective on gender in the modern economy.

If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for Gene, please email him at contact@economicsexplored.com.

About this episode’s guest: Professor Cordelia Fine

Cordelia Fine is a Canadian-born British academic and writer. Her work analyses scientific and popular biological explanations of behavioural sex differences and workplace gender inequalities, explores the effects of gender-related attitudes and biases on judgements and decision-making, and contributes to debates about workplace gender equality. She is the author of three popular science books, published in 13 languages. Among other accolades, Testosterone Rex won the Royal Society Insight Investment Science Book Prize. She is currently a professor in the History & Philosophy of Science in the School of Historical & Philosophical Studies at the University of Melbourne.

Timestamps for EP274

• Introduction (0:00)
• Cordelia Fine's Background and Interests (2:44)
• Defining Patriarchy and Its Persistence (4:45)
• Gender Pay Gap and Job Selection (12:03)
• Impact of Gender Norms and Stigma (23:09)
• Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) Programs (33:01)
• Market Thinking vs. Relations Thinking (40:07)
• Alternative Evolutionary Perspectives (1:05:11)
• Conclusion and Recommendations (1:14:11)

Takeaways

1. The Gender Pay Gap Is Complex – It's not just about discrimination; factors like ‘greedy jobs’ (roles demanding long, inflexible hours) and the devaluation of feminized jobs play a major role.
2. Diversity Initiatives Have Limits – Many corporate DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) programs focus on ‘fixing’ women rather than addressing structural workplace issues.
3. Workplace Norms Favor Men – High-status, high-paying jobs often assume an ‘ideal worker’ who can dedicate unlimited hours—an assumption that disadvantages women with caregiving roles.
4. Traditional Economic Models Miss the Full Picture – Traditional market-based explanations of wage determination often overlook workplace hierarchies, organizational power dynamics, and societal gender norms.
5. Evolutionary Psychology Oversimplifies Gender – Popular claims that men and women have biologically determined career preferences are challenged by alternative theories emphasizing cultural and social learning.

Links relevant to the conversation

Cordelia Fine’s website:

http://www.cordelia-fine.com/

Patriarchy, Inc.:

https://www.amazon.com.au/Patriarchy-Inc-Wrong-Gender-Equality/dp/1838953345

Research showing increasing returns to overwork over time:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0003122414528936

The Gender Pay Debate: Understanding the Factors Behind the Gap w/ Dr Leonora Risse – EP230

https://economicsexplored.com/2024/03/10/the-gender-pay-debate-understanding-the-factors-behind-the-gap-w-dr-leonora-risse-ep230/

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Full transcripts are available a few days after the episode is first published at www.economicsexplored.com.