Ep. 170 (Part 1 of 2) | An emotionally powerful and deeply inspiring conversation with renowned embodiment and trauma educator Mark Walsh from the U.K. and Ukrainian psychologist and trauma trainer Kristina Obluchynska, where we learn about effective ways of treating trauma in the middle of an ongoing war, what trauma therapists are left holding, and how beautiful is the human spirit when it embraces right action. When Russia commenced its full-scale invasion of Ukraine three years ago, Mark went to Ukraine, located willing psychology students, educated them in body-oriented trauma therapy and training, and with Kristina and several other trainees co-founded Sane Ukraine, with the urgent mission of preventing an epidemic of trauma disorders in Ukraine. Beginning with applying trauma first aid and teaching resilience skills in places like the local railroad station where people were coming in from the front lines, and in bomb shelters, Kristina and several other psychologists have now educated thousands of people about trauma—active duty soldiers, veterans, survivors, wives of combatants, and first-line responders such as doctors, teachers, and social workers—and trained hundreds of them to become trauma trainers themselves.

It is an honor to bear witness to Mark’s courageous actions and the humble heroism of Kristina and her team in the face of the devastation being leveled on Ukraine and Ukrainians. “We don’t grieve,” Kristina tells us, “because grief comes after safety. We don’t even use the word safe anymore,” she continues, “only relatively safe.” Mark points out that modern warfare is not just running around with guns—drones hunt civilians and if you move, they kill you. “Do we all have PTSD?” the soldiers ask. With Sane Ukraine, there is someone to answer their questions and teach them what they can do to help themselves and each other. Resilience comes from relationship—from connection to self, others, nature, and spirit. Does the concept of post traumatic growth even apply considering the intensity of this war? co-host Roger wonders. At the end of this extraordinary, heartfelt conversation, when asked what we could do to help, Kristina advises, “Help the army. We are talking here about healing, but what we really need is to survive.” Recorded January 9, 2025.

“There is nothing that can prepare human psychology for modern warfare.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 1

Introducing Mark Walsh, trauma trainer, author, founder & CEO of Embodiment Unlimited, and Kristina Obluchynska, clinical psychologist & trauma therapist, who together co-founded Sane Ukraine to provide training in trauma therapy and resilience skills to professionals, soldiers, combatants’ families and more (01:03)
What compelled Mark to get involved in Ukraine and found Sane Ukraine? (02:33)
How did Kristina get involved with Mark’s trauma training? (06:29)
It requires 3 hours a day of body/mind practice to keep trainees in a state where they can learn something in between running to the bomb shelters (08:30)
Trauma training started happening in person all over the place: Lviv is now the world’s most trauma-informed city (11:11)
When Kristina and her team were invited to do combat resilience training, they were told, “We have 2,000 soldiers, please do something for them!” (13:11)
Training psychologists, social workers, veterans, and wives of combatants (14:01)
Elements of the 3-day training: tactic, tactic medicine, psychological resilience (15:42)
Combatants ask, “Do we all have PTSD?” (17:44)
What are the symptoms of trauma? (18:28)
Nothing can prepare human psychology for modern warfare (20:06)
Now it’s all about exhaustion, because the only way out is to be injured, or dead (22:55)
Meaning is a resilience factor: Man’s Search for Meaning is the most sold book in Ukraine, ever (25:10)
The importance of relationship: connection to self, to others, to the land, to spirit (28:08)
Healing mountain trips for veterans have a dramatically positive effect (29:27)
What are trauma therapists like Kristina and her team holding? (31:49)
We don’t use the word safe anymore—only “relatively safe” (34:24)
Using humor and selling trauma therapy (36:41)
Using Stephen Porges’ traffic light model (39:09)

Resources & References – Part 1

Mark Walsh, Kristina Obluchynska, co-founders, Sane Ukraine
Mark Walsh, founder and CEO of Embodiment Unlimited
Kristina Obluchynska can be contacted through Deep Transformation Podcast’s support email
Mark Walsh, The Body in Coaching and Training: An Introduction to Embodied Facilitation,* Embodied Meditation: Mindfulness, the Body, and Daily Life*
Mark’s Embodiment Coaching Podcast
Polyvagal theory
Stephen Porges, The Pocket Guide to the Polyvagal Theory: The Transformative Power of Feeling Safe*
EMDR Ukraine
Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning*
Colorado’s Huts for Vets, wilderness therapy for veterans and active-duty service members
The traffic light model, Dr. Stephen Porges: What is the Polyvagal Theory? (YouTube video)

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

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“Mr Embodiment” (Mark Walsh) is the author of The Body in Coaching and Training: An Introduction to Embodied Facilitation and Embodied Meditation. Mark hosts The Embodiment Coaching Podcast (3 million+ downloads), and led the world’s largest Zoom event, The Embodiment Conference. He founded the Embodied Facilitator Course, and has trained over 2,000 embodiment coaches in over 40 countries. Mark went to Ukraine twice during the recent conflict and set up saneukraine.org, a charity now run solely by Ukrainian professionals to provide trauma and embodiment training to trainers, therapists, and coaches. Mark has worked in war zones, and entertained over 50,000 children. He has headlined International Coach Federation events, taught at Moscow State University, and lived with the circus in Ethiopia. Mark is an aikido black belt, and has 25 years of experience in other martial arts, yoga, bodywork, improv comedy, conscious dance, and meditation. Embodiment is his obsession, life’s work, and frankly, at this point, he couldn’t get a job doing anything else.

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Kristina Obluchynska is a clinical psychologist, in the process of training to be a psychotherapist with a medical background. In her practice, Kristina integrates gestalt and body-oriented psychotherapy with trauma therapy methods, and uses nature-based therapy as well. Kristina’s main work is done with combatants and veterans and their families, as well as with first-line responders in Ukraine, such as doctors and social workers. Together with her colleagues and with Mark Walsh’s help, she co-founded Sane Ukraine, a charity foundation with more than 60 trainers that provides knowledge about trauma and psychological first aid to combatants and civilians. The full-scale invasion of Ukraine caught Kristina and her colleagues when they were Master’s Degree students at Ukrainian Catholic University, and Kristina is now an assistant at the Department of Clinical Psychology, sharing knowledge about psychological trauma and how to work with it using various approaches. Kristina loves and believes in Ukraine—she participated in the Revolution of Dignity and actively supports the Ukrainian army via psychological trainings and volunteer work.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

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