Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

The Gangster Presidency

Feb 15, 2025

Harry Litman, a former U.S. attorney and host of Talking Feds, discusses the fallout from the controversial decision to drop corruption charges against Mayor Eric Adams, tied to significant resignations at the Department of Justice. Sam Bagenstos, a former general counsel for HHS and OMB, examines the chaotic governance under Elon Musk, warning of the dangers of unchecked executive power. Together, they explore the implications of these political maneuvers on law, accountability, and the fragility of government structures in the face of crisis.

01:18:58

Episode guests

Sam Bagenstos

Harry Litman

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

The recent resignations within the DOJ highlight the moral courage of attorneys prioritizing justice over political influence amid corrupt practices.

The podcast emphasizes the critical role of the Administrative Procedure Act in ensuring government transparency and accountability in policy implementation.

The discussion on government disruption underlines the severe impact of mass layoffs on public services, particularly affecting healthcare and community welfare.

Deep dives

Exploring the Watergate Scandal

The podcast dives deep into the Watergate scandal, illustrating how a seemingly minor event escalated into a defining political crisis in American history. It recounts the moment when five men were arrested while attempting to install eavesdropping equipment at the Democratic National Committee headquarters, marking the beginning of a series of events that would lead to President Nixon's resignation. The host reflects on the contrasts between the dramatized version of events in the film "All the President's Men" and the lengthy, tumultuous reality that transpired over two years. This narrative serves as a powerful reminder of the real-time impact and public sentiment during a chapter of American politics that continues to resonate today.

Intro

4min

Resignations and Legal Integrity

23min

Exploring the Dismantling of Government and Its Judicial Implications

4min

Governance Under Musk's Influence

12min

The Intersection of Private Power and Public Governance

5min

The Fragility of Rights and Government Structures

2min

Impact of Governance on Society

25min

Reflections and Upcoming Conversations in Legal Discourse

2min

On Monday, President Trump’s personal lawyer and Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove ordered prosecutors to drop federal corruption charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. Adams had been courting President Trump for weeks, including with a pre-inauguration visit to Mar A Lago, but the shape of the deal struck between the accused Mayor and the incoming administration came into clear view with a flurry of Department of Justice resignations on Thursday. On this week’s episode of Amicus, Dahlia Lithwick speaks to Harry Litman, a former U.S. attorney, and host and executive producer of the podcast Talking Feds. Harry explains why the so-called “Thursday Night Massacre” is not the kind of scandal even this administration can shrug off while yelling something about the “deep state” and “weaponization”.

Next, Dahlia turns to the chaotic, destructive and dangerous “spontaneous disassembly” of much of the federal government currently taking place at the hands of Elon Musk with guest Sam Bagenstos, former general counsel of the United States Department of Health and Human Services until December 2024, also former general counsel for the Office of Management and Budget from January 2021 until June 2022. Now a professor at the University of Michigan, Sam explains what happens when the federal government stops working, and why persistently asking whether or not we’re in a constitutional crisis is simply the wrong question.

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