629: Anne-Laure Le Cunff - How To Live Freely In a Goal Obsessed World (Tiny Experiments)

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Apr 6, 2025

Anne-Laure Le Cunff, a neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and founder of Ness Labs, explores how to thrive in our goal-obsessed culture. She shares her journey from a top job at Google to embracing curiosity and writing to clarify her thinking. Anne-Laure highlights the pitfalls of linear goals, advocating for a focus on daily behaviors and experiments instead. She discusses the importance of adaptability in leadership and the value of community in learning. With insights on managing procrastination and embracing uncertainty, she invites a more holistic approach to personal growth.

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ANECDOTE

Quitting Google

At 27, Anne-Laure Le Cunff quit her dream job at Google, despite her manager's uncertainty.
She realized she was chasing a narrow definition of success and lacked curiosity.

INSIGHT

Writing Online

Writing clarifies thinking and attracts like-minded people.
The "generation effect" helps understand and remember self-created content better.

INSIGHT

Goal Setting Is Broken

Traditional goal-setting assumes you know your destination and future desires, which can be flawed.
The "arrival fallacy" leads to disappointment as happiness isn't solely tied to achieving goals.

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At 27, Anne-Laure had her dream job at Google. She quit. "Are you sure?" "No."
- She was focusing on a narrow vision of success.
Anne-Laure was most curious about the brain, neuroscience, and why we think the way we do. She went back to school to learn more.
Writing - First, to clarify thinking. Works as a forcing function for that. You need to create your own version of it. You do that by writing. The generation effect. You remember it better that way. Next, it created a magnet of people to her.
The meaning behind the name "Ness" is "The state of being."
Goal setting - What are the traps of linear goals? We think we know what we want. We assume we'll always want the same thing. The arrival fallacy. Think we'll be so happy when we get it, but usually we aren't. Instead focus on the process, the daily behaviors. And run continual experiments. Through those experiments, you’ll probably figure out what you want to accomplish. Or you might even stumble into it.
- Practical goals - Was it useful? Focus on the process. There is nuance. How do you hold others accountable? It's more than just the number. Do the work to understand the nuance, the details behind the number. Too many managers are lazy.
Collaborate with uncertainty. Understand why you're scared of it. Comes from a long time ago. That's no longer a thing. You don't just want your team to survive. You want them to thrive. Don't cling to the first obvious conclusion. Do more work.
What about vision for a CEO? Instead of focusing on being #1 in the marketplace, focus on your approach. Your values, your mission. Focus on your company's daily behaviors more than beating someone else. Be curious and ambitious.
Escape the tyranny of purpose. People are obsessed with finding theirs. People have more than one purpose. It changes over time. You can reinvent yourself. It can make people miserable if they haven't found it.
I suggested that hers is what she has on Ness Labs website: "To help people become the scientist of their own lives." She said that it is for her work.
Procrastination - Instead of getting rid of it, reframe it. Say hello, you're here again; what are you telling me? A tool for it: Triple check - Head, Heart, Hand.
Her grandmother Oma was the final person she thanked in her acknowledgement. Moved from Algeria to France. Didn't speak the language.
Her parents always encouraged her that she could do anything. Show up. Do it. Try.
How do you keep going after the honeymoon of a new project or idea? Keep iterating and trying new things. Have others help you. Sergey Brin got tired of the ad business at Google, so he had someone else run it and he created a lab inside of Google for new ideas.
Don’t let anyone rob you of your imagination, your creativity, or your curiosity. It’s your place in the world; it’s your life. Go on and do all you can with it, and make it the life you want to live.—Mae Jemison, American engineer, physician, and former NASA astronaut