Never Get a “Real Job” Again: Sue Heilbronner on Losing a Role, Choosing Herself, and Selling Without Selling

When a CEO tells you “I’ve lost confidence in you,” what do you do next? For Sue Heilbronner that email triggered a choice: walk out with the box and never take a “real job” again.

In this conversation we get into conscious leadership, radical candor that lands with love, and the practical way Sue turned “pick your brain” coffees into a coaching business and a decade of momentum.

We also highlight Sue’s new book Never Ask for the Sale (out now). It’s a playbook for founders, solopreneurs, and anyone who wants to grow a business without cringey selling. The core concept: passionate ambivalence -- show up fully committed, but without attachment to who joins you. That honesty is magnetic.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 — Why “friends and family” is the wrong opener (and yes, I butchered tenterhooks—easter egg!)

• 05:10 — The Sunday night email: “I’ve lost confidence in you”

• 13:40 — The real turn: deciding to never take a “real job” again

• 22:15 — Conscious leadership from autopilot to choice

• 32:30 — From $95 coffees to a real practice and pricing truth

• 41:55 — Book spotlight: Never Ask for the Sale and “passionate ambivalence”

• 49:20 — Why alignment with what lights you up is the only path forward