The podcast delves into the arguments made in the case regarding presidential immunity from criminal prosecution and the potential consequences. They discuss Trump's flawed arguments and explore the boundaries of presidential immunity, distinguishing between official and private acts. They also speculate on the Supreme Court's decision and the possibility of a delayed trial.
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Quick takeaways
Trump's argument for immunity from prosecution contradicts his previous concession on impeachment and conviction.
The distinction between discretionary and ministerial duties of the president could determine the validity of immunity for illegal actions.
The court is likely to reject Trump's argument for immunity, leading to further consideration of specific allegations against him.
Deep dives
Trump's Arguments for Immunity from Criminal Prosecution
Trump argues that he is immune from criminal prosecution for any official acts he took as president, unless he is impeached and convicted. He claims that the President's official acts are protected by a magical force field of immunity that lasts even after leaving office. However, this argument contradicts his previous concession that a president can be criminally prosecuted if impeached and convicted. The judges highlight the absurd implications of this argument, such as a president being able to sell pardons or order assassinations without facing criminal consequences.
The Discretionary vs. Ministerial Duties Debate
One of the judges suggests a distinction between discretionary and ministerial duties of the president. Discretionary duties are those where the president has wide latitude, while ministerial duties are mandatory and leave no room for discretion. The argument is made that if a president carries out a discretionary duty in an illegal way, it should not be protected by immunity. Trump's lawyer fails to pick up on this point, while the prosecutor cites examples of the courts evaluating illegal actions by the president in the past.
The Possible Outcome and Implication of the Case
The court appears likely to reject Trump's arguments for immunity from criminal prosecution. If immunity is denied, the case would be remanded to the district court to consider Trump's claims of immunity regarding specific allegations against him. The special counsel's office seems confident in its position and wants to move forward quickly. It is suggested that the purpose of avoiding a procedural argument on appeal is to prevent further delays and shenanigans while the case proceeds.
The immunity argument and impeachment judgment argument are refuted
The podcast episode discusses the arguments made by Trump's lawyer, John Sauer, regarding presidential immunity in the context of the impeachment trial. It highlights that Sauer conceded the immunity argument and emphasized the weakness of the impeachment judgment argument. The episode provides specific examples of statements made by Sauer, including his reference to the Constitution's Article 1, Section 3, Clause 7, which supports the idea that a former civil officer who is not impeached is subject to indictment. Overall, the podcast highlights the flawed arguments put forth by Trump's lawyer and debunks them.
The issue of immunity and interlocutory appeal is discussed
The podcast delves into the issue of immunity and whether it is eligible for interlocutory appeal. It mentions an amicus brief by American Oversight, a good government group, which argues that the issue of immunity should be addressed at the end of the trial, rather than delaying the trial proceedings. The episode highlights the views expressed by Judge Michelle Childs, who questions the eligibility of interlocutory appeal for immunity. It further explores the argument made by Trump's lawyer, John Sauer, who claims that presidential immunity is traced to the separation of powers clause. However, the podcast asserts that Judge Childs' argument that presidential immunity is not supported by constitutional text holds more weight. The podcast concludes by discussing the potential implications of the court's ruling on the issue of immunity.