28 | A Natural History of Equality ~ Sarah Brosnan
Oct 18, 2023
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In this thought-provoking discussion, primatologist Sarah Brosnan dives into her groundbreaking research on fairness and inequity aversion in monkeys. She explores the famous cucumber-throwing experiment, linking monkey frustrations with human social inequalities. The conversation covers topics like the potential for monkeys to adopt egalitarian norms and how fairness enhances cooperation. Brosnan also examines whether animals have concepts of property rights and what these behaviors reveal about human moral evolution, prompting a fascinating exploration of our shared nature.
The podcast explores how primates, like monkeys, exhibit innate feelings of inequity, suggesting these sentiments may be biologically rooted rather than just human constructs.
Investigations into primate cooperation highlight that fairness dynamics significantly influence social interactions and reactions to inequality across species.
The discussion contrasts possession norms in primates with human concepts of property, revealing complexities in their social hierarchies and resource management.
Deep dives
The Intersection of Biology and Equality
The discussion emphasizes the perception that biology and equality often clash, yet suggests a deeper exploration is warranted. Observations across various species reveal hierarchies and dominance, yet this doesn't inherently negate the values of equality. Rather than dismissing biology, understanding its role may unravel insights about human inequality. The podcast challenges listeners to reconsider their views on biology's influence on social dynamics, positing that examining animal behavior can inform our understanding of human equality.
Lessons from the Cucumber and Grape Experiment
The well-known cucumber and grape experiment exemplifies how primates exhibit feelings of inequity, as showcased by a monkey's refusal of a cucumber upon witnessing a friend receive a grape. This reaction highlights a fundamental emotional response shared across species, reflecting a sense of injustice when faced with unfair outcomes. The emotional resonance of this behavior may extend to human experiences, making it relatable and impactful. Such findings indicate that feelings of inequality may be biologically rooted, challenging the notion that such sentiments are purely human constructs.
Examining Cooperative Behavior in Primates
Research indicates that cooperative effort among primates is significant, impacting their reactions to inequality. In contexts where cooperation is essential for successful outcomes, animals are more sensitive to fairness dynamics. For instance, when partners are aware of potential inequities from shared tasks, their cooperation is influenced by their awareness of unequal distributions. This suggests that the capacity for fairness is not exclusive to humans, but rather a trait seen in cooperative species, deepening our understanding of social interactions in primates.
The Complexity of Property and Possession
The concept of property versus possession is examined, with evidence suggesting that primates exhibit possession norms rather than clear rights to ownership. For example, chimpanzees can defend food they physically hold from theft, implying a rudimentary understanding of possession. However, this does not equate to their having a concept of property in the human sense, as they lack the mechanisms to enforce or communicate about absent possessions. This distinction highlights complexities in animal behavior regarding resources and may reflect inherent social structures that influence interactions.
Implications for Understanding Human Inequality
The conversation highlights the implications of biological insights for addressing human societal inequalities. Biological instincts for fairness may impact human reactions to inequality, not merely as learned behaviors but as inherent emotional responses. The speaker suggests that recognizing these fundamental instincts can inform how society approaches issues of equity and fairness, particularly in creating systems that ensure broader participation. Ultimately, this perspective frames the discussion around inequality in a manner that seeks not just to understand it, but to foster more just and equitable social structures.
“Why do we care about equality? Is it an invention of the European Enlightenment? Or is it something rooted in human nature?”
These questions launched episode 15 with philosopher Elizabeth Anderson. Titled “A Deep History of Equality”, our conversation ranged from Pleistocene hunter-gatherers to Chinese communism.
Today’s episode continues the quest. But this time, we go further and contrast humans to other apes and monkeys.
My guest is the primatologist Sarah Brosnan. Her research is famous for a wildly popular video clip of a monkey who, frustrated by unequal treatment, throws a cucumber at the experimenter. You might have seen the video. Do watch it if you have not. It's only 58 seconds long.
I saw this clip years ago. It resonated with something in me. But what exactly? Why should we care about monkeys throwing cucumbers? Are the critics right who say that this has nothing to do with human values?
It was an honour to discuss this with Prof Brosnan herself. We start by exploring cucumber throwing (i.e. "inequity aversion") in a variety of species. We then move to topics such as:
Can monkeys learn more egalitarian social norms?
How do monkeys (or chimpanzees) react to unfairness when they are the ones benefitting?
Answering the critics: is this really about social equality?
Does fairness improve cooperation?
Are there property rights in the primate world?
Is there still something special about humans?
As always, we end with my guest's reflections on human nature.
I hope you enjoy the conversation!
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