TCC Podcast #373: When Business Gets Tough with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug

We're talking all about online business myths and what to do when you're struggling in your business on the 373rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This episode is a Kira and Rob only show—no guest. And they delve into the realities of running a business today. The path is seldom up and to the right (always growing) and often so challenging, you're tempted to get a "real" job or at least something part-time until client work gets steadier. We cover a lot of ground in this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Almost no one expects to launch a business and have everything go easily from the beginning, but after a few years, well by then, things should be getting easier, right? Well, not always, and not exactly.  I'm Rob Marsh, one of the founders of the Copywriter Club. And on today's episode of the Copywriter Club podcast, my co-founder Kira Hug and I talk about a couple of business myths. Like the idea that your progress should always be up and to the right. That is that things always get easier and more profitable year after year. Or the idea that replacing clients with products and passive income is easy. or the all-too-common belief that taking a job in-house is a failure. I also talked a little bit about how to prepare for a business downturn. If you struggle to find clients or your business hasn't been growing as quickly as you hoped, you may want to stay around and listen to the end of this episode.  But first, this episode of the Copywriter Club podcast is brought to you by the Copywriter Underground. You've heard me talk about this for the past few weeks. It truly is the best membership for copywriters, content writers, marketers of all kinds. And let me just give you an idea of what you get for what you pay every single month. First, there's a monthly group coaching call with Kira and me where you can get answers to your questions, advice about overcoming any business or client or writing challenge that you have. When we do one-on-one coaching, we charge several hundred dollars an hour for that. it's included in your membership.  There are regular training sessions on different copy techniques. Sometimes that's from Kira and myself. Sometimes that's an expert that we bring in to talk about something they're doing interesting in their business. All of those are designed to help you get better at this thing that we do. We've been talking about new AI tools and ways to use AI in the underground. even new tools, techniques, prompts that you can use to have AI help you get more done quicker. And on top of that, there's this massive library of training and templates. And the community is full of copywriters who are ready to help you with almost anything, including sharing leads from time to time. What an amazing value that is. To find out more of what it includes, go to thecopyrighterclub.com/tcu.  And with that, let's get to our discussion for a few suggestions about how to prepare for the inevitable downturns and hard times in your business.  All right, Kira, just you and me again today. And we're going to talk about a couple of things. But before we jump into talking about recessions and making our businesses stronger and all of that stuff, I put together a couple of getting to know you questions that are maybe a little bit different. Let's start easy. Mountain or beach vacation? Kira Hug:  I feel like we've covered that one on the pod already. And I feel like last time you asked me, I was like, I don't, I don't know. I can't choose between mountain or beach. Because the question stresses me out. So I remember it, but I mean, I would probably lean towards beach if I had to choose. I just, I like both. It's hard for me to choose.  Rob Marsh:  Why does it stress you out?  Kira Hug:  Because I don't like choosing. This is like anytime anyone asks me like, Oh, what's your favorite song? What's your favorite movie? What's your favorite memory? How are we supposed to choose when we want to experience everything in life? So anyway, this is why I like to interview people and not be interviewed. That's why. But what are you like? Mountain or beach? Which one would you prefer? Rob Marsh:  I live so close to the mountains and so far away from the beach that I feel like vacation is getting away from what I have or what I know and getting to the thing that I don't have. So, you know, I only see the ocean a couple times a year if I'm lucky. And so I'll take a beach vacation any day. Even a mountain lake beach is a good vacation. I'm like you, I love mountains and you know, somebody said, Hey, yeah, we've got a couple of weeks for you in a cabin in Montana or whatever. I would take it. But beaches just feel vacation-y to me where mountains feel just a little bit more like regular recreation. Kira Hug:  Yeah, and I think because I moved, like it's so weird to live near the beach. I've never in my entire life lived near a beach. And so now, you know, at this stage, living near a beach for the past year, and this is probably where I'm going to be for a while, I think I'm still getting used to the fact that a beach is a mile away like I could walk or jog to the beach and there are beautiful beaches you know a short drive away and so in some ways I think it's just like it hasn't fully set in that it's right there like I don't have to travel and it's really cool at times after after work to take the kids and go to the beach and watch the sunset on the beach and it's just again it's like I'm like, do I live near a beach? I just can't quite handle it. So I think that's also why the question stresses me out and just, I don't know. Maybe I've just moved too many times. So I'm like, I don't even know where I live. Rob Marsh: There's something magical about just the monotony of wave after wave crashing in on a beach. And I think I could sit on the beach and just watch the waves all day long, all week long. It'd take me a long time to get tired of that. Kira Hug:  Yeah, and especially if you have, you know, if you're there during a storm, it's really fun when the waves are so big and crazy, like that's a good time. Or again, like a sunset because everyone gathers and all of a sudden the beach is filled with, you know, with locals who want to experience it. So it is a magical place. So okay, I guess I would choose a beach in the end, even though I live near it now. That would be my pick. Rob Marsh:  Beach. Fair enough. Question number two, this one's a hard one. What's your Bacon number? And just for context, everybody probably knows this, but there's that old internet game of how many degrees to Kevin Bacon you are. And so I'm wondering if you've ever thought about this, like how many degrees away from Kevin Bacon are you? Kira Hug:  Yeah, I figured it out when you were going to ask me that. And I had to kind of figure it out and map it out. And I guess it depends. When you do it, does it mean you have to have had a conversation with someone in order to have that degree and that relationship? Rob Marsh:  Let's just call it a connection for now. Kira Hug:  Yeah, but what warrants a connection? Is it you made eye contact? Is it you were within 10 feet of each other? Rob Marsh: Well, for me, I think it's probably going to be some kind of way where you can say, I am connected to this person. It's like, I know this person from this thing or from this place. So maybe you talked to them, or maybe you do know them personally. But I will leave that up to you whether you go that hard on that definition. Kira Hug:  OK, so I could be two degrees away. Rob Marsh: That's amazing. How? Who do you know that knows Kevin Bacon? Kira Hug:  And how do we get him on the podcast? This is where I was in the vicinity of someone who has a relationship with Kevin Bacon. When I was in SAG for a year and in a movie called Sex and the City, I was on screen with Sarah Jessica Parker. who is one degree away from Kevin Bacon because they were in Footloose together. And so therefore, I am two degrees away from Kevin Bacon. And if we say, well, no, you didn't actually talk to her. Okay, well then I did talk to Kim Cattrall, who was also in the movie, who did acknowledge me and made eye contact and she spoke to me. So that means I'd be three degrees if we're getting technical. But do either of them remember me? Do we have a connection? No. Rob Marsh:  Okay. So that's definitely closer than I think I can get myself. Kira Hug:  Do I win? Rob Marsh:  I think you do. You win. Your bacon number is less than mine. So I think my bacon number is four. I had a roommate in college, Mike, who left to left Salt Lake City, went down to LA to become a producer. He may have done some acting as well. It's been a little while since I've talked to Mike. He's an awesome roommate, a really funny guy.  He's been a producer on shows like Real Housewives of New York City, and he produced Tori and Dean in Love with Tori Spelling. Tori Spelling is two degrees away from Kevin. She was in a movie called Soul Good with Octavia Spencer, who was in Beauty Shop with Kevin Bacon. So if I do that, I'm four links away. Now there may be somebody out there that I know who’s closer connected, but I don't know who that is. Kira Hug:  Okay. Okay. So, I mean, it's good. You actually knew, you know, you knew the connections, which is better than what I do. Rob Marsh:  I could definitely call Mike and just say, hey, it's been a while. Let's talk or whatever. And I'm sure he probably could call Tori and maybe Tori and Octavia. But that's as close as I can do with just some quick looking today. Like I said, maybe there's somebody I know who's got a closer connection. I'll have to ask around. Kira Hug:  Yeah. Well,