TCC Podcast #159: 4 Ways to Work as a Copywriter with Matt Hall

Copywriter Matt Hall joins us in the studio for the 159th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Matt is a member of The Copywriter Think Tank and has a ton of experience as a copywriter and agency owner. He's worked in-house, as an agency employee, and has started his own agency—twice. Here's what we talked about: •  the high school experience that made him want to know everything •  how he decides what he needs to learn next—without the stress of keeping up •  getting permission to be different and not live up to other’s expectations •  the system he uses to stay up-to-date on his favorite topics •  why he made the shift from eternal student to content writer and strategist •  working with a variety of clients •  why he likes to do a lot of different kinds of work •  the different roles a copywriter can choose (and why to do each one) •  his biggest struggle as a business owner •  his $30K month and the work he had to deliver •  the challenge and benefit of working with a spouse •  his system for managing all the house-hold stuff so work gets done •  the practice that keeps him from having a scarcity mindset •  how he attracts clients to his freelance business •  his thoughts about the trends in conversion copy and design This is a good discussion you definitely don't want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below or subscribe with your favorite podcast app. You'll find a full transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kajabi Rob Braddock The Dunning Krueger Effect Prerna Malik Linda Perry Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript:   Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for Episode 159 as we chat with copywriter and all-around renaissance man, Matt Hall, about how he became a copywriter, different roles copywriters can take on and how they all compare, conversion design, what it is and how copywriters should think about conversion, and what Matt has done to bring business in the door for his agency. Welcome, Matt. Matt:   Hi. Really happy to be here. Kira:   Yeah. Great to have you. I have this huge smile on my face and I don't know if it's the cold Chinese food I'm eating or if it's just ... I'm so excited to hang out with you. So let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a renaissance man/conversion, optimization socialist/copywriter/many other things? Matt:   All of the things. I'm hoping more of a jack of all trades rather than a master of none. But it started back in high school and I overheard a conversation when I was like, 14. And some of my classmates were talking about one of our friends saying, ‘She is so interesting. She can talk about literally anything, like your car's dashboard and she knows about it.’ And something about the idea of being able to engage with somebody over literally any topic at any given time and actually know what you're talking about really connected with me. And that stuck with me, even when I was an undergrad, I did a master's in English with the focus on professional writing, but I got ... I built my own minor. It was a combination of graph design and PR and building documents with tech and just combining a whole bunch of things. I ended up having something like 200 credits when they finally kicked me out school and said, ‘You got to graduate, dude. It's time to go.’ And then I went and got a Master's in American studies which is another field that's like combining a few different fields. American studies lives on the edge of English but also history and a little bit of psychology or whatever you want to do.