What's wrong with society, and how can we fix it? (with Tim Urban)
Aug 2, 2023
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Tim Urban, writer and co-founder of Wait But Why, dives deep into society's most pressing issues. He explores the clash between our 'primitive mind' and 'higher mind', affecting our decision-making in an era of rapid technological change. Urban discusses the concepts of 'golems' and 'genies' to illustrate human potential and destructive group dynamics. He critiques the tactics of the woke movement and emphasizes the need for open debate over division. Lastly, he examines the role of identity in shaping beliefs and the urgent call for political unity.
The emergence of genies or golems in society is influenced by factors like identity, societal pressures, and fear of public shame, leading to either collective genius or collective madness.
The ladder of thinking, ranging from rational and open-minded thinking to rigid and tribalistic behavior, reveals a spectrum of cognitive engagement.
Golems, representing destructive collective behavior, can emerge when individuals prioritize group identity over independent thinking, and social factors like social media can amplify their spread.
The existence of golems on both the left (wokeness) and the right (Trumpism) poses a threat to the foundation of liberal society by employing coercive tactics, silencing dissent, and eroding the principles of free speech and liberalism.
Deep dives
The Emergence of Genies and Golems
The podcast episode discusses the concept of genies and golems. Genies represent the collective genius of humanity, where individuals come together to achieve amazing things. On the other hand, golems represent a collective madness, where individuals become part of a mob mentality and can engage in destructive behavior. The podcast explores how humans can exist on a spectrum between the higher mind, where individuals seek truth and engage in rational thinking, and the primitive mind, which is driven by impulses and tribal instincts. The emergence of genies or golems is influenced by factors like identity, societal pressures, and fear of public shame. It highlights how our higher mind can be hijacked by the primitive mind, leading to harmful actions and collective irrationality.
The Ladder of Thinking
The podcast introduces the concept of a ladder of thinking, which represents different levels of cognitive engagement. At the top of the ladder is the scientist mindset, where individuals prioritize truth-seeking, open-mindedness, and healthy debate. As one moves down the ladder, the primitive mind becomes more influential, leading to emotional attachment to ideas, confirmation bias, and identification with a particular group or ideology. This can give rise to behaviors seen in sports fans and attorneys, where individuals are willing to defend their beliefs even in the face of contradictory evidence. At the bottom of the ladder is the zealot mentality, where individuals become inflexible, dehumanize others, and engage in harmful actions. The ladder of thinking reveals the spectrum of cognitive engagement, from rational and open-minded thinking to rigid and tribalistic behavior.
Social Factors and the Rise of Golems
The podcast explores the societal factors that contribute to the rise of golems, the destructive collective behavior. It explains how social status, fear of public embarrassment, and the need for conformity can influence individuals' thinking and actions. Golems emerge when individuals prioritize group identity over independent thinking and engage in tribalistic behavior. It highlights how social media can amplify the spread of golem-like behavior, creating an environment where conformity and tribalism are rewarded, while independent thinking and constructive debates are discouraged. The podcast suggests that the rise of golems reflects a weakened immune system within society, where tribal behavior is unchecked and negative group dynamics prevail.
Golems on the Left and Right
The podcast notes that golems can exist on both the left and right sides of the political spectrum, albeit in different manifestations. It mentions how the rise of Trump energized a golem-like mentality among his supporters, where loyalty to a leader became more important than principles or rational thinking. Anti-Trump Republicans faced backlash within their party, reflecting the strength of the Trump golem. Similarly, the podcast highlights how tribal behavior and conformity can be observed in left-wing circles, where certain viewpoints are enforced and dissenting opinions are discouraged. However, it notes that there are important distinctions between the golems on the left and right. Despite the differences, both sides exhibit collective madness and a lack of rationality.
The Threat of Wokeness and Wrecking Ball Movements
One of the main ideas discussed in the podcast is the existence of two golems: one on the left (wokeness) and one on the right (Trumpism). These golems represent destructive forces that threaten the foundation of liberal society. The speaker argues that these golems are focused on power and employ coercive tactics to control public opinion and silence dissent. They also indoctrinate individuals and enforce compelled speech, eroding the principles of free speech and liberalism. The speaker emphasizes the importance of defending the liberal house and pushing back against these wrecking ball movements.
Distinguishing Liberal Social Justice and Wokeness
In this segment, the speaker distinguishes between liberal social justice and wokeness. They explain that liberal social justice seeks to address inequalities and fulfill the promises of a liberal society through persuasion, open debate, and common humanity rhetoric. On the other hand, wokeness represents an illiberal ideology rooted in Marxist thinking that rejects liberalism and seeks to enforce equality of outcome. The speaker criticizes the tactics of wokeness, including coercion, indoctrination, and mob mentality, which undermine liberal principles and hinder social progress.
The Importance of Prioritizing Pro-House Over Left-Right Divisions
The podcast argues for prioritizing the defense of the liberal house over partisan divisions. The speaker emphasizes the need for courage to speak out against destructive movements, regardless of one's political leanings. They highlight the danger of allowing golems to shape society, whether they originate from the left or the right. By advocating for unity around core liberal principles, the speaker believes society can address existential threats, make better decisions, and maintain a strong foundation for progress.
What's wrong with society? And what can we do to fix it? Centuries ago, a person's grandparents lived in a world that was basically identical to that person's world; but what are the implications of living in a time when the rate of technological change is such that our grandparents' world was almost nothing like ours, and ours will be almost nothing like our grandchildren's? How do Tim's concepts of the "primitive mind" and the "higher mind" map onto System 1 and System 2 thinking types? What thinking styles exist along the spectrum from primitive mind to higher mind? Why are there either lots of Nazis or virtually none at all? Are there more "golems" or "genies" in the world right now? Are the American political left and right wings just equal but opposite groups, or are there significant asymmetries between them? How does social justice activism differ from "wokeness"? What is "idea supremacy"? Does liberalism need to be destroyed and rebuilt from scratch (perhaps as something else entirely) or merely repaired and revamped? Is illiberalism the biggest threat facing the world right now — bigger even than AI, climate change, etc.?
Tim Urban is the writer/illustrator and co-founder of Wait But Why, a long-form, stick-figure-illustrated website with over 600,000 subscribers and a monthly average of half a million visitors. He has produced dozens of viral articles on a wide range of topics, from artificial intelligence to social anxiety to humans becoming a multi-planetary species. Tim's 2016 TED main stage talk is the third most-watched TED talk in history with 67 million views. In 2023, Tim published his bestselling book What's Our Problem? A Self Help Book for Societies.
