Episode 382: Mentors for managers and mob programming
Nov 13, 2023
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Finding mentorship and learning resources for engineering management in a small company. The hosts discuss the challenges of mentorship and offer advice on seeking specific feedback. They explore the importance of finding mentors and peers, self-mentorship, and hiring a coach. The podcast also delves into the listener's experience with 'mob programming' and concerns about constant Zoom collaboration. They discuss different levels of collaboration in the workplace and tools like virtual rooms, extreme programming, pair programming, and mob programming.
Extreme collaboration and 100% Zoom engagement through mob programming may not be suitable for everyone, and it is okay to seek a different work environment if it does not align with individual preferences.
Individuals have varying levels of comfort and satisfaction with extreme collaboration, and it is natural to have different preferences for how one works best.
Deep dives
Mob programming and extreme collaboration in the workplace
In this podcast episode, the hosts discuss the concept of mob programming and extreme collaboration in the workplace. They describe a scenario where teams have a Zoom room open all day and engage in constant collaboration, including mob programming with a command line tool that switches users every few minutes. While some engineers rave about the benefits of this approach, the anonymous listener expresses concerns and discomfort with this level of collaboration and 100% Zoom engagement. They question whether they are the odd one out for not enjoying this workflow and seek validation and advice. The hosts acknowledge that this extreme level of collaboration may not be suitable for everyone and suggest that the listener stick it out for a little longer to see if they adapt. If not, they mention that quitting may be a valid option for finding a working environment that aligns better with their preferences.
Challenges and productivity concerns with extreme collaboration
The hosts highlight the potential challenges and productivity concerns that may arise from extreme collaboration and 100% Zoom engagement in the workplace. They express skepticism about the effectiveness of constant mob programming for a full workday, questioning whether it leads to maximum productivity or if it becomes counterproductive. While acknowledging that some individuals might thrive in such an environment, they suggest that this level of collaboration may not suit the majority of engineers and encourage the listener to explore other options if they continue to feel uncomfortable and unproductive.
Finding the right work environment and embracing individual preferences
The hosts discuss the importance of finding the right work environment that aligns with individual preferences and working styles. They mention that different people have varying levels of comfort and satisfaction with extreme collaboration, and it is natural for individuals to have different preferences for how they work best. They reassure the listener that their feelings of discomfort and disliking the extreme collaboration approach do not make them a weirdo, and that it is okay to seek a different work environment if this one does not suit their preferences.
Advice for navigating extreme collaboration or considering alternatives
The hosts provide advice for the listener on navigating the current work environment or considering alternative options. They suggest that the listener give it a bit more time to see if they adapt and become more comfortable with the extreme collaboration. However, if after a couple of months they still do not enjoy it, the hosts suggest considering other possibilities, including finding a new job that aligns better with their preferred way of working.
In this episode, Dave and Jamison answer these questions:
There aren’t a lot of engineering management growth resources in my company. It’s a relatively small company with about 50 engineers. My manager doesn’t have time to properly mentor me. And I’m not sure I would want him to because I feel like his advice isn’t always the best. Where can I go for management mentorship or other learning resources? Is it worth exploring non-engineering managers on other teams? Or leaning more on my peers? Or should I be looking for outside advice?
A recent episode mentioned awkward Zoom silences. My experience is the exact opposite.
I recently switched teams at the same company. This new team has a Zoom room open for the entire work day. The first person to start their day begins the Zoom and the last to leave ends the meeting. They do “mob programming” using a command line tool that switches users every few minutes along with all the strict rules of Extreme Programming - a driver, navigator, etc. But they also do everything in groups: story refinement, diagrams, documentation, everything. Live collab, all day, every day.
I’m one month into this transfer but worried that this isn’t a good fit and that I made a horrible mistake. ALL the other engineers here rave about how this is the greatest thing ever. Am I the weirdo for not liking it? I feel like I am of split-mind to only either speak or type (but not both) and have not yet rediscovered my coding flow.
Mostly I just wanted to roll a perception check with you: Am I the weirdo for not liking all this collaboration and 100% Zooming, or would this workflow drive most other engineers mad as well? Any pep talk about sticking it out would be appreciated.
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