[PREVIEW] Not Trying to Be Hot 25-Year-Olds

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark!

We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, here with our first-ever Patreon podcast episode!

We're going to chat about:

⭐️ How we're feeling about the BIG MOVE.

⭐️ How to think about clothes after a significant size change. What even IS your style now?!

⭐️Figuring out fall uniforms!

⭐️ Diet culture in disaster prep.

⭐️ The one thing we wish straight-sized style bloggers would do differently.

And so much more! To hear the full conversation, you'll need to be a paid subscriber.

Reminder: Substack subscribers, make sure to redeem your gift to read this newsletter for FREE!

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As we move from Substack to Patreon, there are just a few quick (but important!) steps you’ll need to take to keep accessing the member-only podcast episodes on your favorite podcast app.

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Episode 214 Transcript

Corinne

This is the episode you’ve been waiting for! We’re going to reveal our big news.

Virginia

Burnt Toast and Big Undies have moved to Patreon!

Corinne

We’re going to get into the how and the why, and then we’re going to answer some pretty juicy listener questions.

Virginia

This is very exciting. It's our first week over on Patreon. We’re still, to be honest, at the time of this recording, figuring out how to use Patreon? I would say?

Corinne

Absolutely.

Virginia

We're still learning our way around, which I’m sure is the experience that many listeners are also having. Unless you were already a longtime Patreon user, which I think a lot of you were. I mean, I think a lot of us use Patreon. But it’s all new. It’s different. How are you feeling, Corinne?

Corinne

I’m excited! Definitely still getting to know Patreon as a platform, but it feels refreshing to be somewhere new. It has a very different vibe over here, I think. 

And I think a lot of people kind of had beef with Substack for various reasons. And so I’m excited we're here.

Virginia

It feels like it was time. Burnt Toast hasd been on Substack for four years. Big Undies is newer, but you have been working in the Substack space for about as long as I have. And there were just a lot of ways that platform had stopped working for us. And a lot of decisions that company had made that were not feeling great. It’s something that listeners have asked for for a long time. People are like, "When are you leaving Substack? We don’t like the Nazis!" And we don’t like the Nazis either. 

But it was a really big question of how to move these businesses, how to do it without us losing big financially, and in terms of both of these brands till having our communities. We didn’t want to leave and have nobody follow us.

Corinne

Also, I think there’s an argument to be made that letting Substack turn into a Nazi-only platform is not useful.

Virginia

For sure, that has been my response for a long time, when folks asked. If we all leave, then only the Nazis remain. And that is a real concern. I think that’s what we saw happen to Twitter, for sure. So many people left, and it is just a cesspool. Is Substack going to become a cesspool? I have no idea. I hope not. 

I also don’t want to be overly rosy-eyed. I’m sure there are Nazis lurking somewhere on Patreon. I’m hopeful this company is going to do a better job of responding to that situation than Substack did. But I have worked for media corporations my entire career. There are Nazis at all of them. That's just the disgusting reality of making media. It is what it is. 

But I am hopeful. I think Patreon really understands that that has been a huge frustration of a lot of us on Substack, and I’m hopeful that it’s going to be better here. 

And not to totally pivot from Nazis to technology, but—there are a lot of great features here at Patreon that we’re really excited about! One of the biggest ones for me is that you can now pay monthly for an Extra Butter subscription after Substack only ever letting me price it annually. That might be very inside baseball to a lot of you, but so many people have emailed and been like, "I would love to do Extra Butter. Can I pay monthly instead of annually?" And I always had to say no, and now I can say yes!

Corinne

I think the Patreon tier system is very appealing. And I also think there is a nice community element to Patreon that did exist on Substack as well, but I think also it was kind of like a wider Substack community, and on Patreon, it feels a little more unique.

Virginia

This is our community. We are our own ecosystem, which is pretty cool. 

And I also just want to briefly say on the tiered thing: One piece of feedback that came up a few times in the reader survey–it was not the main throughline, but more than a few people said it—was "we don’t like tiered payment systems. It doesn’t feel egalitarian." What are your thoughts on that?

Because I’ll be honest, I hadn’t really thought about it, and then I was like, "Am I replicating a class structure?" I see that critique. People wanted one price for all of the content. 

And I also think my response is, if I’m going to do one price for all of the content, then that one price can’t be as accessible as I want it to be.

Corinne

We do rely on listener support to do this work. I also think sometimes there are people who want one email a week, but not two. 

Virginia

SO it’s nice to offer different options. On the pricing thing, we had raised the price of Burnt Toast over on Substack up to $7 a month or $70 for a year of the basic subscription. And that was in part because we couldn’t really do as much with Extra Butter as we wanted with their technology limitations. 

Now that we’re over on Patreon, a regular paid subscription is only going to be $5 a month, and Extra Butter is $10 a month. So I like that now we have a much more accessible tier, and then there’s the higher tier for folks who do want to support more or want to get more content. I hope it doesn’t feel so much like a class system and more like I’m trying to give you options. That’s really how I’m thinking of it. 

Corinne

Yeah, that makes sense. 

Virginia

And of course, I’m always going to offer comp subscriptions, no questions asked. If someone just drops me an email and says they need it, I’m always happy to do that. Not as many people take me up on it as you would think. Nobody’s taking advantage of it. People always still feel like they need to explain. You don’t need to explain. I trust that you would support the work if you could. You don’t need to let me know about your student loans or your husband losing his job or whatever. I’m happy to give the comp.

So that option still exists as well, and there will still be a lot for the free list too, but not these Extra Butter episodes. These are just for the Extra Butter folks!

Corinne

This is where the real juice is.

Virginia

And now we made it a class system. 

Corinne

Oh, sorry. The class system is juiciest, juicy, and no juice. Dry toast.

Virginia

Oh, man, thinking of the names has been the hardest thing as of this recording. I’m pretty sure the regular tier is now called Just Toast. I think that’s where we’ve landed. It’s Just Toast and Extra Butter. Y’all did make some great suggestions. There was a vocal minority support for Salty Butter. Mostly me, I was outvoted. 

Some people wanted dry toast, butter, extra butter. And I was like, "I think now we’re too in the weeds of ordering toast?" So, yes, Just Toast and Extra Butter is what we’re doing. 

Corinne

I love that. 

Virginia

Anything else we should talk about with Patreon that people are likely to be struggling with in this first week? I do realize it’s annoying that if you’re not already a Patreon user, you’re going to have to come over from Subtack. You’re going to have to click the link in your email, come over, re-enter your credit card. We are making sure if you had an annual subscription on Substack, you get credit for all of the months you already paid for. But I’m sure there’s going to be some confusion about that. Bu remember: If you were paying $7 a month on Substack, you will now be paying $5 a month when you rejoin on Patreon. So good news there!

Corinne

All right, let me read the first question. 

I would love your thoughts on building a new wardrobe after a significant size change. Not just seasonal flux situation, but the kind of change where literally none of your clothes fit anymore. Yes, there’s the shopping part, but I’m more interested in your perspective on the mental components in terms of both body change and style change, because what even is your style if you can’t shop at a lot of the same stores or sections of the store? How do you do this in an anti-diet way that doesn’t suck you into the restrictive world of flattering capsule wardrobes, especially when all the pants are bad, and going out tops, which may be long and flowy, are back.

Virginia

Going out tops are back?! I have not been leaving the house. That is not news I have heard. It doesn’t have to be back for you, is what I’ll say. What are your first thoughts on this question?

Corinne

Well, I have a lot of compassion. I feel like it sucks. It sucks! I do think it’s a mental hurdle to not only be dealing with changes in your own body, but also your accessibility to clothes.

Virginia

It is very jarring. And I hear what this person is saying about, how do I even know what my style is anymore? How do I have style now that I can’t shop in the same stores? I think that’s a real process that people go through, where you just suddenly feel like, "I don’t know what I like because what I used to like isn’t available anymore." So why would you know? It’s like when you go to a new country and eat a cuisine you’re not familiar with. You don’t know what you like because you didn’t grow up eating that food. And then you might discover you love lots of things. But you’re not like, oh, I have a go to menu order here. You’re learning it all. 

It’s not always as joyful as that. It’s okay to just be angry that that’s the reality. The industry should be better, and you should be able to still wear the same kinds of things you love, like just in your new size, and it shouldn’t be such a mind fuck.

Corinne

One hundred percent.

Virginia

That said, I think there can be opportunities to reframe a little bit, where you can start to find something about your new shape that you appreciate and enjoy dressing that you didn’t highlight in your previous shape. Does that make sense? 

Corinne

Yes.

Virginia

Like just to be extremely heteronormative and reductive about it: I have bigger boobs as a fat person than I did as a thin person, and I like dressing for my boobs more. That’s not going to be everybody’s experience. But I think I often look better in things than I did when I was a B cup? No offense, B cups. But I look cuter in some stuff now that I have boobs.

Corinne

That’s awesome, I love that for you.

Virginia

I understand that’s not a universal experience. A lot of people have really complicated feelings about having big boobs.

Corinne

I think another thing you could lean into is how stuff feels. If you’re trying on clothes or whatever, like, maybe do it without a mirror and be like, is this comfortable? Do I Like this color?

Virginia

I think trying things on first without a mirror is always such a good way to try on clothes. because if it is not physically comfortable, it doesn’t matter how cute you look in it. So starting with that first and centering your experience of the clothes, not some external gaze’s experience of you in the clothes.

Corinne

I also feel like when you’re going through something like this, it can be a good time to experiment. I know that’s not always the most fun thing, but I was thinking about Nuuly or like, do you have a friend who’s a similar size who you could try on some of their clothes? Or maybe they’re getting rid of stuff and would give you stuff.

Virginia

This was kind of where I was going with "is there an aspect of your new shape that you enjoy." There can be styles that you wouldn’t have considered before that really do work on the body you have now. It’s fun to experiment and figure out what those are. And it might mean wearing stuff that you feel like, oh no, I never would have liked that. Or that’s not me at all. And a lot of it, you’ll still be like, that’s not me. I don’t like that. But you’ll find one or two things that really do work. Switching over into plus sizes, I started to play with proportions really differently in clothes.

Corinne

That’s cool. 

Virginia

And I think one aspect of that was  getting more comfortable with the fact that I was plus size and that I was going to look bigger no matter what I did. I had to make peace with the fact that I can no longer trick people into viewing my body as thin, which I think if you’re midsize or upper straight sizes, is a whole Jedi mind trick we teach ourselves to do. You’re like, "I’m a 12, but I can pass for an eight." Or whatever.

When I wore clothes as a straight size person, I was always looking for the slim cut, the skinny, to minimize, because I was trying so hard to stay in that box. And once that box is no longer available, it’s actually kind of liberating, because you’re like, "That’s just not even what we’re trying to do anymore." So I can now love wearing a wide-legged pant. Of course, we’ve talked on the podcast. This is not an instant thing. This is years of working at this. And those internalized things still come up. But it’s kind of freeing to think "If looking skinny is not the goal anymore, that goal is off the table, then what do I want to look like and what’s fun to explore?"

Corinne

Yeah, I think that’s really good advice. Think about how you want to feel in your clothes, versus how you can look smaller.

Virginia

And don’t you feel like for you–well, I don’t, I don’t know your timeline on this, so if I’m getting this wrong, just tell me. But I feel like your interest in exploring gender fluidity and stuff with fashion has come along with size changes?

Corinne

Hmm, yeah, that’s a interesting thought. Sometimes I also relate it to getting older. I haven’t fully fleshed that out. But I think something about getting older also made me feel like, oh, I don’t need to be feminine to be hot or whatever.

Virginia

Yeah, definitely not. It’s another way it can open things up. Like, do you want to explore different gender expressions? Being older, you get to give fewer fucks, because no one’s going to confuse you for at 25 year olds. It’s, in some ways, such a relief not, it is not to try to be a hot 25 year old anymore.

Corinne

What we’re saying is let yourself feel whatever you’re feeling. It’s okay to be sad and angry. Let yourself feel free.

Virginia

And if it’s caftan season or big pants season or whatever it is, you don’t need to wear a going out top. We’re not trying to be a hot 25 year old. That girl has has her whole life ahead of her, and she’s on a different journey.

All right. I’ll read the next one. 

I just left my job to go to grad school full time, and I’m looking for ideas for making sitting at my desk in my home office for many hours a day, more appealing. What do the two of you consider essential for a work from home setup, from technology to lighting to snacks? 

I love this question.

Corinne

This is such a good question. And I feel like this is something I am still very much working on.

Virginia

Well, especially right now, because you’re not in your home office setup.

Corinne

But even in my home home office! I feel like a comfortable chair is essential.

Virginia

I’m about to break up with my chair. I’ve added things to it, like my physical therapist recommended a certain kind of cushion, and I’m just like, I think I’m trying to make a West Elm chair that’s never going to be the right chair for me work. It just sucks that the comfortable chairs are all real ugly.

Corinne

Yes, and they’re like, $1,000.

Virginia

They’re $1,000 of ugliness. It’s not great. So that’s one.

Since I don't have a comfortable chair, I would also say having reasons to get up every now and then is really helpful. I’m not of the school that sitting is killing us all. That’s not what I’m here to say. But if you have the ability, from your lower back’s perspective, getting up or just changing where you work throughout the day can be useful.

Corinne

I don’t even have a great setup for this at my house, but I feel like the ability to work one place and then move and work somewhere else can be really nice just for the brain. Sometimes you need a shift in perspective. 

I also think having a light for if you have to do Zoom or video calls can be helpful. 

Virginia

It’s so annoying, but true. Investing in good lighting. I’d love to know other recs that people have, if they have one they love. 

I have worked from home and had a home office set up since 2005. So that’s 20 years working from home. And I was just thinking about this, my first home office, which I set up in basically a fugue state because I’d been laid off from my magazine job at the age of 25 and was like, okay, I’m going to be a freelance writer now. And with my last tiny paycheck from that magazine job, I went to the West Elm store and bought a desk, and to sit on, I bought an ottoman. 

See previous question about we’re not trying to be a hot 25 year old anymore! I think my back is still screwed up from perching on this little ottoman to type. It was cute, and I liked how it fit into the desk. But, like, terrible idea. Just a terrible setup.

And then I did have some years where I worked on my couch, which I also do not advise. 

Corinne

Oh, I can’t do that. 

Virginia

I think that really gets uncomfortable. Also just brain-wise, it makes your work and your leisure time too mixed up. So I would say my number one thing is: To whatever extent you can do it in your house, whether it’s a guest room or a closet, whatever —have your workspace be somewhere other than where you sleep and eat and watch TV. This is really the most important thing to me. I need something I can shut a door on, so I know when I’m not working. 

But it has evolved over the years. I’ve had a lot of different setups, a lot of different things. I have a lot of home office privilege now, because we have this kind of bonus space that I was able to turn into my office, which is really nice and much bigger than I need it to be, but it’s great. Obviously, you don’t need that. But the comfortable chair, the lighting, all help.

 Snacks is a great question. I need a morning Diet Coke. I need lunch at 11:30 I’m not a wait all the way till noon. I’m not going to be a hero. I’m going to stop at 1130 for lunch most days. And then I need some chocolate in the afternoon.

Corinne

I’m not quite so scheduled with my snacks, but yeah, I need snacks.

Virginia

They’re important. So the thing you said about changing locations. I work in my home office until about 3:15 or 3:30 when my kids get home from school, and then I bring my laptop downstairs and we have a table where my younger kid sits to do their homework, and I do my work, side-by-side. That’s when I answer emails and stuff, usually. And it is nice to kind of switch gears and go downstairs.

Corinne

Where my desk is in my house is kind of dark and then sometimes, if it’s really nice out, I like to sit at like, my kitchen table where it’s much sunnier.

Virginia

Natural light is a nice feature in a home office. It’s not required, but it makes you feel less like you’re in a cave. Good luck! It’s fun to set it up. I also think, have some cuteness, like, have some plants, if you like plants, or fun art. Don’t buy a bad West Elm ottoman to sit on. But like, having it be a little aesthetic is nice.

All right, I’m going to read this next one, which is a doozy of a question from OG Burnt Toasty Amy H. Thank you, Amy, for submitting this. I don’t know what I’m going to be able to add!

Speaking of the horrifying state of the world, many more people are focusing on being prepared by creating bug out bags. These are bags of supplies you’d take if you had to leave your home the country where there was a major infrastructure failure, no water, heat, cooling, electricity, etc. They’re normally associated with preppers preparing for armed attack or civil war, but there are more mainstream accounts recommending this kind of preparation and weight loss as part of being able to get ready to handle martial law or other situations that might require such resources. I feel weird trying to tell people that weight loss probably won’t help and that their preparation focus. Being thin and nimble to avoid harm leaves out anyone with mobility disabilities, certain elderly folks, people in hospitals, etc. Any thoughts on how to be effective in this conversation about weight loss, not needing to be part of being prepared for distressing situations?

 I’m prepared for nothing. Corinne, do you have a bug-out bag?

Corinne

I don’t, but I this is something I’ve thought about. I mean, there are also places in the world where this is just part of being alive. Like if you live in a place where there are hurricanes or fires. So I think one thing is having stuff ready, but I think another thing that is nice to think about is how would you help your neighbors? Do you have people around you who are disabled?

I mean, I don’t know what to say about the weight loss thing. 

Virginia

It just feels like it’s going to show up fucking everywhere, is what I think. Like, really, really we’re preparing for the end of the world, and people are like, better lose weight for it!!!

Corinne

I mean, if you feel like you aren’t able to get out of your house by yourself, it’s good to have a plan. But I don’t think the plan needs to be a diet.

Virginia

Also how can you be sure of the timing? You don’t know how fast you’re going to lose that weight. Disaster could hit beforehand. You know, it could be, you could be in a plateau, like...

Corinne

And calories are really important for is your brain, which you might want to be using in a situation like this.

Virginia

The last thing we need is a hangry group of people trying to survive an apocalypse.

Corinne

There are two ways to approach these apocalyptic scenarios. One is: How can I protect myself at all costs? And the other one is: How can I work within a network of people who may have things to offer and may also need things from me? We can help each other. So I would encourage people to think about it that way, rather than, "What can I do to train my individual body to be ready?"

Virginia

God, that’s so wise. So I guess when you’re in conversation with people, if they mention losing weight, you could start to pivot it towards have you thought about how you’re going to help folks in your community? Or, I’ve been worrying about the old lady down the block, like, I wonder if we should talk to her about what she needs. Especially if you live in one of these places where evacuations happen for wildfires or hurricanes or whatever.

I mean, I’m just acknowledging I have a lot of East Coast privilege. Not that anywhere is safe, but I don’t live in a place where we are regularly facing this. I guess I just thought everyone I love is coming to my house? I have a lot of Cheez-Its in the basement! I’m pretty prepped on that front, so come on over. 

Corinne

I just also don’t think that being thin necessarily makes you better able to survive a disaster. 

Virginia

No. One of the prevailing theories about fatness is we’re the ones who survived the disasters. Like, how did we evolve to survive famines? Holding on to calories is something smart your body does to prevent against destruction.

Corinne

There’s that whole paradox where, as you age, it’s actually better to have higher body weight. 

Virginia

You need some reserves. Also for babies. If you have babies in the NICU dealing with health issues, weight is a big concern there because the more reserves they have, the more they can survive whatever they’re going through. 

So yeah. Really not a time to focus on thinness. Really a time to be glad if you’ve got some reserves. And think about how to help other people in your community. That seems super important.

Corinne

if you do want to exercise to have more mobility, or more ability to get around in an emergency scenario, that’s cool. You can focus on that without focusing on weight loss specifically. 

All right!

What is the fall equivalent of my summer uniform of gauze or linen pants plus a plain t-shirt?

Virginia

Oh, I love this question. I love this summer uniform. First of all, I kind of want to go redo summer and wear a gauze pants and a plain t-shirt. A+ uniform choice. I have been thinking about this a lot lately, because my summer uniform was those Big Bud Press tank tops and some drawstring linen shorts was kind of what I was living in. So, similar concept. And I had some pants, too...Okay, I guess I was doing linen pants and a plain tee. It's me. I wrote this question.

I don’t know what my full fall uniform will be. My hybrid summer/fall uniform until we’re fully into colder weather, is these ImBodhi jumpsuits that I have. I have a black one and I have a blue one, which I wear layered with either a cardigan or an open button down shirt over it. So it’s similar, because it’s like a flowy, wide leg pants with a tank top top, and then a lighter layer. And I’m kind of wondering if you could do the same thing of just adding a button down or a cardigan to your linen pants and plain t shirt? That will get you through the next couple of weeks before it’s we’re fully into fall.

Corinne

Is it not just jeans and a plain tee?

Virginia

But I feel like the linen pants feels a little more like polished maybe? Jeans might feel too casual? I would think you could go to jeans, but I am very interested in finding some comfortable non-jeans pants for fall. And I don’t know what they are yet. We talked about this last time. My quest continues.

Corinne

I like the idea of trousers, but I do think they’re hard to find.

Virginia

Yeah. I want some elastic waist trousers. 

Corinne

Okay, I feel like, Lucy and Yak has some stuff like that, where it’s like, elastic waist, but it’s tapered, and they have a lot of fun colors. I think their sizing can be hard to figure out. 

Virginia

I had a bad experience with one of their boilersuit type jumpsuits, where I was trapped. I really needed a bug out bag for that apocalyptic situation in my closet. Barely came out alive. Anyway. 

Do you hone in on a seasonal uniform? Because I really do do this.

Corinne

I mean, I feel like my uniform is always just...

Virginia

Jeans and a shirt?

Corinne

Or shorts and a shirt? But I do tend more towards a button-down. 

Virginia

You love a button-down. 

Corinne

I mean, I definitely will wear things over and over again, but I don’t quite think of it as a uniform.

Virginia

I love a uniform. I love reducing the decisions, especially during the week. I love having outfits that give me a zero body anxiety, because I found the thing. I guess, related to that first question, like, I found one formula that’s working for my body. Let me just replicate it. But every season, it’s like, oh, what will it be? So I don’t know, what with the colder weather coming, I haven’t cracked it yet this year. But we'll see.

Corinne

Okay, I’m going to read the next one. 

It seems like there are very few actively fat-positive bloggers these days. My question is, how does it feel to work with these bloggers, does it ever feel like tokenism? For example, Cup of Jo occasionally features a stylish fat person, but she posts far, far more outfits and people who can fit outfits and labels that are only straight sized. I’m often told at least Cup of Jo posts something for fat people, most bloggers don’t at all. It just feels so hurtful, like I wouldn’t create a blog post that promotes things that only a small percentage of the US population could wear. Eek, I don’t know if I’m being overly sensitive, so I’m curious how you handle it, or if you have a different perspective.

Virginia

Yeah, I think that’s pretty valid. I think it is very frustrating how much straight size bloggers and newsletter writers, especially in the fashion space, continue to forget that fat people exist and wear clothes. So I really hear this. Corinne, you’ve written about this on Big Undies several times like this. It is an ongoing problem.  

Corinne

Yeah, I actually was just posting about this,  I posted, "New rule! You’re not allowed to use the word everyone or universal or like mankind in your marketing or brand name, if you only make up to a size extra large." I just think it’s like so common to overlook that. 

And I will say, because this person says, "I wouldn’t create a blog post that promotes things that only a small percentage of people could wear." But I do think we all have blind spots. I think you may not know the people you’re leaving out. I’m sure there are people I leave out, you know? You know, even though I strive not to.

Virginia

Good point. How many blog posts contain adaptive clothing?

Corinne

Yeah, or very short inseams. Or people who are allergic to certain materials, there are just so many different ways people can be.

And, I have found some people are open to that feedback. And some people aren’t. I’ve had people who see my posts reach out to me then and be like, hey, I would like to include more options in this post I’m doing. How can I do that?

Virginia

On Cup of Jo specifically, I will say Joanna is someone who is very open to that feedback, and I’ve appreciated that about her. I mean, I am one of the stylish fat people she includes from time to time. And I would like her to include more! But recently, she featured a Swedish woman talking about her life, and she referenced Malia Mills swimsuits and said they come in so many sizes for all bodies. So I clicked through, and they go up to a size 16. And it’s not a large 16. And I posted a comment, "Hey, this is so great. It makes me want to move to Sweden. Also, this is not an inclusive brand." And immediately, Joanna was like, "Thank you so much. Yes, correct."

So I think it is about offering consistent feedback to these folks and making sure they know that we’re noticing. And that means also noticing when they do it right.

And I understand your point about tokenism, and I don’t know how we make progress past tokenism without like—she asks me to do something. I do it so that there’s a fat person on Cup of Jo. Do you know what I mean? And sometimes I don’t and I say "I’m busy. Try Corinne, try someone else." I do try to make sure they’re getting other people on their radar, because that’s part of my responsibility here, to share the platform.

But I think we have to keep showing up to those spaces, as readers and as people who might be featured there. And the more we show up and the more we participate, the better it gets. And of course, it’s annoying that this work has to be done. But I do remember being a straight, size person and just truly not understanding this reality.

Corinne

And that Swedish woman is like, oh, here’s a great inclusive brand. It goes up to 16. But I’m someone who, like, most of the time when people are talking about inclusive stuff, they’re talking about "up to 3x," and often the 3x doesn’t fit me. So you’re always leaving someone out.

Virginia

Even the most inclusive brands who do go up to a 3X or 4X are not including everybody. There’s no perfect way to do this. But there are better ways to do this. It’s better to include a brand that goes up to 3X than only goes up to 16, but it would be better still to include one that goes up to 5X or 6X.

I think Kim France also is getting this message, and she comes from longtime fashion magazine land where nobody was above a size 12—that was unfathomable. And she’s open to it. She’s trying to do better.

But there's also the reality that these are all bloggers who have financial relationships with certain brands. They’re sponsored by those brands, and those brands might not be the most size inclusive, and so they’re in a complicated situation. And that is why Burnt Toast relies on paid subscriptions, guys! That is why advertising-driven media is always going to be a little problematic. Because when you are a content creator who is reliant on brands for your income, not on your audience, you are going to do what those brands want. And that’s the problem with that whole system.

Corinne

Subscribe now!

Virginia

I didn’t mean to turn that into a pitch, but I do just think it’s worth noting that this is one business model/ Of you personally don’t like that business model, there are options. And, choose who you’re paying for subscriptions with. There are people trying not to do it that way, but in order to do that, we can’t rely on sponsors. So the subscription model is the alternative. 

All right. Last question is a fun one.

What is everyone doing for Halloween and Halloween costume ideas?

Corinne

We’re recording this in mid-September. I do not have any Halloween ideas or any Halloween plans. 

Virginia

Okay, well, you are a child-free person, because Halloween has been discussed around here since approximately July, I would say. 

I had one kiddo who she and her friends were going to go as the K-Pop Demon Hunters girl band, but they just switched it to being dragons. I’m not sure if it’s a specific dragon or just dragons, so I’m waiting to hear more about that. And then my younger kiddo is deciding between Elphaba, which I think is going to be the one of the most popular costumes this Halloween, or the Grim Reaper.

No matter what, I will be a witch, because I decided last year I have one costume for the rest of my life, and it is witch. So I will be a witch. That said, if she is Elphaba, I might also do the green face paint with her, and we could both be Elphaba. And I did float to Jack that he could be Glinda if he wanted, just to, like, round things out. He was like, I could be the lion. I was like, or better. And he was like, well, that would be better. So we’ll see. We’ll see if that happens. 

So that’s what we’ve got going on for Halloween. This is my theme of my episode. I’m like, have a uniform. Have a Halloween costume. Never have to make decisions.

Corinne

Do you guys just go to Spirit Halloween?

Virginia

Sometimes? Usually their dad actually is in charge of executing their costumes. 

Corinne

Oh, nice 

Virginia

That's a little mental load I’ve handed off over the years. So sometimes he builds elements. Like, last year, my older kid was Zyborg. So there were a lot of elements of that costume, and he helped her source them, and they made some. When they were younger, I would spend money on a decent Halloween costume because it would go into our dress up box. So we have some Halloween costumes that have been played with for years and that we’ve been able to hand down. Like, we have a good dragon costume that I think both of them wore as little kids, and a ladybug costume. 

Do you have any local Halloween parties you go to or anything? Or is every year just kind of like whatever?

Corinne

I think every year is kind of like whatever. There is a neighborhood near me that goes really all out and shuts down a bunch of streets. People go wild. And so I often will, like, walk over to that with friends and walk around. 

Virginia

I mean, we have discussed Halloween is a hard holiday for fat people, the costume inclusivity, talk about sizing nightmares. If you are also a little bit of a Halloween hater, you can come sit us.

Corinne

Yeah, I don’t love wearing costumes.

Virginia

No, it’s not my favorite, but I’m excited to see what Burnt Toasties dress up as. We’ll try to remember to do a thread. A chat in the chat room! Now that we’re on Patreon. Got to use the lingo! A chat room about Halloween costumes and see what people are dressing up as, because I do like seeing other people’s costumes. I just don’t want the added work myself.

Corinne

Totally.

BUTTER

Virginia

You go first, because I have to remember my Butter.

Corinne

Okay, well, I’m going with a really classic Butter. My butter is potato chips. Because I just ate some. I’m still in Maine, as discussed. And there’s this really good potato chip brand Fox Family potato chips. They come in like a silver bag. They’re so good. They’re like, they’re better than Cape Cod, in my opinion.

Virginia

That's a major gauntlet thrown with two New Englanders.

Corinne

I know. And they have a salt and pepper flavor that I am really into right now.

Virginia

That sounds absolutely delightful.

My Butter is a new end of garden season thing I’m doing, which is pressing flowers. Jack made me a flower press for my birthday back in April, and then I kind of forgot about it for a few months. And he was like, hey, we should use the flower press. And it was so fun! We picked some flowers, we put it in the press. We forgot about it for three weeks. We opened it up, and they were like... really flat. And I don’t know why that is exciting!

And we put them in chunky acrylic frames I have that magnet together, so they were kind of like a nice modern way of because I feel like flower press art. It can be a little twee. It’s always darling. But it’s not like super my aesthetic.

I’ve also heard people now suggesting mod podging them onto stuff, which I think could be fun to do with the kids. So we may, we might try some of that.

Corinne

That could be a good costume. Mod Podge them onto some shirts or something. 

Virginia

I thought you meant go as an actual flower press. I was like, what? I tried to be a garden one year. It didn’t go very well.. I’m going to stick with witch. But thank you.

Corinne

You could be a flower witch! 

Virginia

I could be a flower witch! That’s sort of my whole personality, right there. Flower witch.

I’m always in my feelings in October about the garden wrapping up, and it’s nice to, like, preserve a little bit of it. It’s like a real low lift, low stakes, low lift. So, yeah, flower press.

 Well, this was a great episode. We are over here on Patreo! And thank you guys for coming along and checking it out with us. It’s going to be even better than what it was, but also basically the same thing. So don’t feel super stressed about the change. 

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, and Big Undies!

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Farideh.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!