When do you start that side hustle you've always talked about doing? What if it gets you fired from work? And even if you do leave, make your success and build your hustle into a successful business, can you ever decide to step away and go back to your career? Julian Douglas, global CEO of advertising agency VCCP, talks to Evan Davis about his decision to go in to advertising, being fired for his night life start up, and then walking away from the company he founded to go back to his former career.

Production team: Producers: Simon Tulett and Michaela Graichen Researcher: Drew Hyndman Editor: Matt Willis Sound: Rod Farquhar Production co-ordinator: Katie Morrison