In this riveting discussion, Sam Harris, a neuroscientist-philosopher and prominent figure in the new atheism movement, joins Jonah for an exploration of profound questions. They dive into the implications of dogma versus secularism, examining how a fully secularized society might fare. The conversation shifts to the rising antisemitism within elite institutions and the intertwined complexities of artificial intelligence. Harris and Jonah also reflect on the camaraderie of classical liberalism and provoke thoughts on what a post-Trump landscape may look like.
The podcast emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between different organized religions, highlighting their varied societal impacts and functions.
Jonah and Sam discuss the dual nature of dogma, noting its potential role in providing moral clarity while also warning against its dangers and rigidity.
The conversation critiques the influence of extremist ideals on institutions, stressing the necessity of upholding critical thinking and dissenting views for democratic health.
Concerns regarding advanced artificial intelligence focus on its unpredictable nature and the need for robust safeguards to align its goals with human interests.
Deep dives
Distinctions in Religion
The conversation emphasizes the need for nuanced distinctions among organized religions rather than treating them as a monolithic category. The speaker draws an analogy between religion and drugs to illustrate that different religions serve vastly different purposes and have various implications for society. For instance, while some may promote peace and community, others could lead to violent extremism. Recognizing these differences is crucial for engaging with the subject of religion constructively, as broad generalizations can obscure the reality of its impacts.
Dogma and Tradition
The dialogue explores the concept of dogma, discussing its potential advantages and disadvantages in organizing society and guiding ethical choices. The speaker argues that certain settled questions, especially regarding morality and ethics, can provide a foundation for a healthy civilization. As an example, they reference historical commitments against practices like slavery, which should not be revisited along with personal convictions about morality. The challenge lies in balancing the need for firm ethical positions with the necessity of remaining open to new arguments and evidence over time.
Consequences of Dogmatism
A significant point raised in the discussion is the danger of dogmatism, particularly when it leads individuals to ignore evidence or alternative viewpoints. The speaker illustrates this with the issue of embryonic stem cell research, where strict adherence to dogmatic beliefs about the sanctity of life hindered potential medical advancements. This scenario highlights how an unyielding perspective can prevent society from addressing pressing ethical dilemmas and finding solutions to real-world problems. The ongoing need for critical examination and flexibility in thought is portrayed as vital to navigating complex moral landscapes.
The Role of Organized Religion
The speaker acknowledges that organized religion can serve as a powerful force within society, sometimes contributing positively to community and cooperation. However, it is suggested that there are often more effective means of fostering the same communal spirit without relying on dogmatic structures. While recognizing the benefits religions can offer, the speaker argues for seeking better, evidence-based reasons for good action that do not entail dogmatism. The ultimate takeaway is a call for a balanced approach that appreciates the roles of morals and ethics while encouraging continual questioning of underlying principles.
Intellectual Integrity and Institutions
The conversation critiques the current state of institutions, particularly those that have come under the influence of extremist ideals, whether from the left or the right. The speaker argues that the encroachment of dogmatic thinking can lead to a failure of institutions to uphold the values of truth, evidence, and integrity. This deterioration is seen as damaging to societal discourse and presents dangers for democracy. The discussion underscores the importance of maintaining spaces within institutions for critical thinking and dissenting opinions to foster better decision-making.
The Nature of Intelligence and AI
A major concern discussed is the potential consequences of developing artificial intelligence that exceeds human capability in understanding and problem-solving. The speaker highlights the unpredictable nature of advanced intelligence, suggesting that it might form goals and take actions that could diverge from human interests. The analogy with dogs and their limited understanding of human motivations emphasizes how an advanced AI could disregard human safety in pursuit of its goals, even if those goals were initially framed positively. This raises critical questions about the alignment of AI's interests with our own as technology continues to advance.
Ethical Considerations of AI Development
The risks associated with AI development are framed within a broader context of existential threats, particularly when machines are capable of self-improvement and high-level cognitive tasks. The discussion illustrates a fear that, without proper safeguards, humanity could create systems that operate beyond our control, resulting in unintended consequences on a massive scale. The urgency of establishing frameworks for safe AI emerges as a major theme, emphasizing that oversight is crucial in the face of ever-accelerating technological advancement. Ultimately, the conversation points to the delicate balance required to harness AI's potential while mitigating associated risks.
Are you there, God? It’s Sam Harris and Jonah. At long last, the neuroscientist-philosopher and father of the new atheism movement has come to TheRemnant for a Horatian salon that is poised to discuss the really big questions—questions so big we had to double the length of the episode. Jonah and Sam debate dogma, epistemological free-for-alls, the emancipation of C-3PO, and truth as its own defense. Questions abound: Would society be free from all ill if every man and institution was fully secularized? When do we defer to the experts? How do we grapple with the cognitive dissonance of human nature and our modern ethical sensibilities?But the party doesn’t end there. In the second hour of their conversation, Jonah and Sam dig into the root causes of the rise of antisemitism in elite institutions, ranging from cultural addiction to transgression to the feelings economy. They cover the rise and future of artificial intelligence, speak to the camaraderie that comes with being a classical liberal, and discuss what has been gnawing at the back of everyone’s brain: What happens after Trump? Fair warning, if you make it to the end, you may have some newfound fears about an impending dogpocalypse.
The Remnant is a production of The Dispatch, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a non-partisan, conservative perspective. To access all of The Dispatch’s offerings—including Jonah’s G-File newsletter, weekly livestreams, and other members-only content—click here.
