Micah Martin: Clean Coders - Episode 363

Aug 18, 2025

Micah Martin, co-founder and CEO of Clean Coders, shares his journey from a childhood influenced by his father, Uncle Bob, to navigating the software industry. He discusses the value of mentorship and apprenticeship in developing skilled engineers, drawing parallels with martial arts training. Micah also explains the evolution of Clean Coders and the significance of acceptance testing in agile practices. He emphasizes the importance of adapting to automation while ensuring human oversight remains crucial in software development.

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ANECDOTE

Early Influence And First Job

Micah Martin learned coding from his father, Robert C. Martin, starting with games and early machines like the Commodore 64 and first Macintosh.
His first job working alongside industry figures like Kent Beck humbled him and accelerated his learning into real-world software craft.

ADVICE

Use Apprenticeship To Build Skill

Hire and train developers as apprentices who learn from experienced craftsmen rather than expecting college alone to suffice.
Apprenticeship produces stronger developers even if it costs more and risks staff poaching.

ADVICE

Train With New Languages And Short Iterations

Teach apprentices a new language, then have them maintain and extend real code week-to-week under one-week iterations and TDD.
Force delivery commitments by estimating stories and treating iteration estimates as true commitments.

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Micah Martin is a co-founder, CEO, and Studio Director for Clean Coders. He’s a 2nd-generation coder, serial entrepreneur, family man, pilot, airplane builder, engineer, author, and just a normal guy trying to enjoy life to the fullest.

He is also a co-author of Agile Principles, Patterns, and Practices in C#, along with his father, Robert C. Martin, also known as Uncle Bob, and a contributor to the popular testing framework FitNesse, among other things.

Topics of Discussion:

[1:52] Micah talks about early influences from his father, Uncle Bob, including childhood “robot” games and learning to code on a Commodore 64 and the first Macintosh. [3:47] First job working alongside industry legends like Kent Beck and Ward Cunningham, and the humbling realization that college hadn’t prepared him to build real software.

[5:00] Founding Clean Coders to distribute training videos and later expanding into custom software development with Clean Coders Studio. [6:54] Why apprenticeship is key to developing strong software engineers and how Pete McBreen’s Software Craftsmanship influenced his approach. [8:20] Parallels between martial arts training under a sensei and learning software from a master craftsman. [11:23] How Clean Coders apprentices learn new languages like Clojure through Project Euler challenges and Koans, and why maintaining and extending code is essential training. [15:13] The origins and purpose of FitNesse, acceptance testing, and the need for a modern replacement. [18:43] The gap in tooling for non-programmers to write executable tests, and AI’s potential role in bridging it.

[20:35] The role of bullet-point test scenarios in developer/customer collaboration. [21:07] The decline of Agile’s technical focus and the creation of the Software Craftsmanship Manifesto at a summit in Libertyville, IL. [25:29] Carrying forward the Clean Code discipline in both training and client projects. [27:11] Plans to offer a digital apprenticeship experience through CleanCoders.com. [28:17] How Micah uses AI for algorithms, test data generation, and client projects, plus its current limitations. [36:37] Lessons from aviation autopilot systems and why humans remain essential in software development.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Agile Principals, Patterns, and Practices in C#

Clean Coders

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