Ethics or the Right Thing? Aaron Interviews Sylvia Tidey on her new book (08/19/2022)
Aug 20, 2022
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Sylvia Tidey, author of 'Ethics or the Right Thing?: Corruption and Care in the Age of Good Governance,' discusses Indonesian officials caught between Western models of impartiality and familial reciprocity. Topics include anti-corruption projects, nepotism, equity, and fairness. The podcast explores the link between economic trends and corruption in Indonesian history, the language policies of the 'New Order,' and the paradoxical effects of recent anti-corruption policies.
The podcast discusses the dilemma faced by civil servants in Indonesia, torn between familial obligations and the ethical guidelines of the bureaucracy.
It explores the blurred line between familial relationships and official rules in Indonesian bureaucracy, highlighting the challenges faced by civil servants.
Anti-corruption efforts in Indonesia have resulted in unintended consequences, giving rise to new forms of corruption and questioning the efficacy of these measures.
Deep dives
The Dilemma of Ethics vs. the Right Thing
The podcast explores the dilemma faced by civil servants in Indonesia, highlighting the tension between ethics and doing the right thing. The main title of the book, 'Ethics or the Right Thing,' stems from a dilemma presented by a civil servant named Andrias. He struggles with the conflict between his obligations to his family and the ethical guidelines of the bureaucracy. The podcast delves into the complexities of navigating these conflicting ethical demands, and how individuals like Andrias wrestle with finding the right balance.
Corruption and Collusion in Indonesian Bureaucracy
The podcast discusses the concept of corruption in the Indonesian context, where corruption is not simply referred to as corruption, but additionally includes the terms 'collusion' and 'nepotism'. These terms highlight the emphasis on familial relationships and favoritism in Indonesian bureaucracy. The podcast argues that there is a blurred line between these familial obligations and the official rules and regulations of the bureaucratic system. It explores the challenges faced by civil servants who navigate between the principles of the right thing and their ethical obligations to family and acquaintances.
The Paradox of Anti-Corruption Measures
The podcast highlights the unintended consequences of anti-corruption efforts in Indonesia. It suggests that these measures have not necessarily decreased corruption, but have instead given rise to new forms of corruption. One such consequence is the pressure to maintain appearances of transparency and compliance with anti-corruption regulations, which can inadvertently create opportunities for new corrupt practices to emerge in more opaque spaces. The podcast provides examples from different government departments, illustrating how the performance of transparency may coexist with ongoing corruption. It ultimately questions the efficacy of anti-corruption measures and the complexities they introduce in the ethical landscape of Indonesian bureaucracy.
The Shift in Perception of Corruption
The podcast explores how corruption in Indonesia has transitioned from being somewhat tolerated during the regime of President Suharto to being condemned under the auspices of anti-corruption and good governance. The impact of economic decline and the rise of anti-corruption measures led to a transformation in public perception. The emphasis shifted from corruption being acceptable if it benefitted the greater good during prosperous times, to corruption being viewed as detrimental to the efficiency and functionality of the state during economic crises.
Navigating the Ambiguities of Anti-Corruption Measures
The podcast highlights the challenges faced in defining and combatting corruption in Indonesia's post-Suharto era. The implementation of anti-corruption measures created an atmosphere of confusion and fear. The focus on procedural compliance and transparency often led to new practices that, while technically legal, appeared to be corrupt through popular standards. The complexities of corruption, such as the blurred line between care and self-aggrandizement, and the role of elections as a means of holding politicians accountable, further contribute to the ongoing debate and evaluation of corruption in Indonesian society.
Sylvia tells us how state officials in one Indonesian province found themselves caught between Western models of governmental impartiality ("the right thing") and familial models of reciprocity and mutual care ("ethics"). Sometimes these officials are able to satisfy both norms at once, but sometimes not.
We discuss Indonesian anti-corruption projects that target practices of nepotism, the circumstances in which officials enjoy the discretion to favor those in their extended family when dispensing jobs or other scarce resources, and Indonesian distinctions between self-serving from altruistic acts of nepotism.
We explore some reasons why the merger of family and business relations could be useful: building morale, affording deeper interpersonal knowledge of co-workers/subordinates, etc. and some questions of equity and fairness that arise in such contexts.
Sylvia reviews the link between economic and ideological trends in Indonesian history during the 20th Century, and we discuss the language policies of the "New Order" that used the words "mother" and "father" (in Indonesian) to refer to work superiors.
Finally, Sylvia argues that recent anti-corruption, pro-transparency policies have had the paradoxical effect of generating new forms of corruption, both hidden and all-too visible.
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