Sylvia and I discuss her book, Ethics or the Right Thing?: Corruption and Care in the Age of Good Governance University of Chicago Press,  2022 (Distributed for HAU).

Sylvia tells us how state officials in one Indonesian province found themselves caught between Western models of governmental impartiality ("the right thing") and familial models of reciprocity and mutual care ("ethics").  Sometimes these officials are able to satisfy both norms at once, but sometimes not. 

We discuss Indonesian anti-corruption projects that target practices of nepotism,  the circumstances in which officials enjoy the discretion to favor those in their extended family when dispensing jobs or other scarce resources, and  Indonesian distinctions between self-serving from altruistic acts of nepotism.

We explore some reasons why the merger of family  and business relations could be useful: building morale, affording deeper interpersonal knowledge of co-workers/subordinates, etc. and some questions of equity and fairness that arise in such contexts.

Sylvia reviews the link between economic and ideological trends in Indonesian history during the 20th Century, and we discuss the language policies of the "New Order"  that used the words  "mother" and "father" (in Indonesian) to refer to work superiors.  

Finally, Sylvia argues that recent anti-corruption, pro-transparency policies  have had the paradoxical effect of generating new forms of corruption, both hidden and all-too visible.