140. Andy Mills on How Curiosity Can Save Journalism -- and Us

You may not recognize Andy Mills’ name, but you likely know his work: He co-created The Daily podcast for The New York Times, where he also produced Rabbit Hole, a fantastic series on the internet, and – quite fatefully! – the war on terror podcast, Caliphate. Shit happened. It was complicated. Andy is no longer at The New York Times. 

But he’s struck out on his own. Last year he gave us The Witch Trials of JK Rowling, one of 2023’s best podcasts, and now he’s back with a new podcast, Reflector, which tells “stories about the strange experiences of being human — sparking wonder, unveiling complexity, and igniting curiosity.” The first episode tackles a familiar topic, over-drinking, and centers on an unexpected subject: Katie Herzog, the very funny host of Blocked & Reported, who shares her experience with the anti-drinking drug Naltrexone. Nancy and Sarah chat with Andy about addiction, storytelling, faith, and how to push back on the media’s excesses.

Also discussed:

* The burden of knowing who is going to hell

* The Bible, it has slow parts

* The love of God is a very hard thing to lose

* Drinking as a spiritual experience

* How the social justice movement is deeply Protestant

* The Caliphate scandal

* About Andy’s exit from the New York Times …

* Sarah, the black belt of dumping beer on people’s heads

* Jealousy’s role in the media meltdown

* More on Donald McNeil Jr. ouster, and Nancy could not be happier/angrier

* Did Infinite Jest predict social media?

* Naltrexone: Miracle drug, or “quick fix” that doesn’t address what’s wrong?

* “You’re a smoker? Lucky you.”

* A civil war on the movie Civil War

* “I wanna listen to a podcast that’s just Nancy saying, ‘William Langewiesche.’”

* The Harry Potter of adult romance novels

Plus, video texts equal love, why no stories are actually neutral, why alcohol is an “analog drug,” and much more!

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe