What happens when the person preaching on Sunday morning believes something completely different than the folks sitting in the pews? Well friends, that's exactly what we're digging into today. My buddy Ryan Burge brought the graphs—including some brand new data that hasn't even dropped on his Substack yet—and let me tell you, it's a real deal predicament for Mainline Protestantism. Turns out about 60-70% of mainline clergy identify as liberal, but only about 25% of the people in the pews do. That's not a gap, that's a canyon. We're talking ELCA, UCC, PCUSA, Episcopalians—the whole crew. And look, Ryan and I are both mainline folks, so we're not throwing rocks across the river here. We're throwing rocks at our own faces. We get into why this disconnect exists, what the "silver tsunami" of aging Boomers means for these congregations, and why young progressive folks aren't joining our churches even though we thought we built them a home. It's honest, it's a little uncomfortable, and yeah, we also talk about Zion Williamson and Christmas movies because that's just how we roll. If you want to go deeper on where American religion is headed, join me and Ryan along with Tony Jones for our upcoming class The Rise of the Nones this January at www.AmericanNones.com. Come on.

You can WATCH the conversation and see the graphs on YouTube

Dr. Ryan Burge is a professor of practice at the Danforth Center on Religion and Politics at Washington University in St. Louis. He is the author or co-author of four books including The Nones, The American Religious Landscape, and The Great Dechurching. He has written for the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and POLITICO. He has also appeared on 60 Minutes, where Anderson Cooper called him, “one of the leading data analysts of religion and politics in the United States.”

Previous Visits from Ryan Burge

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⁠⁠UPCOMING ONLINE CLASS: The Rise of the Nones⁠⁠

One-third of Americans now claim no religious affiliation. That's 100 million people.

But here's what most church leaders get wrong: they're not all the same. Some still believe in God. Some are actively searching. Some are quietly indifferent. Some think religion is harmful.

Ryan Burge & Tony Jones have conducted the first large-scale survey of American "Nones", which reveals 4 distinct categories—each requiring a different approach. Understanding the difference could transform everything from your ministry to your own spiritual quest.

⁠⁠Get info & join the donation-based class (including 0) here.⁠⁠

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Episode 1042 - Assess don't assume...except maybe in geriatric exercise research