#053 - Joscha Bach on Modeling Reality & Self-Organizing Software
Feb 7, 2024
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Joscha Bach, a cognitive scientist and AI researcher, discusses our relationship with reality, self-organizing software, creativity, curiosity, and stages of development. They explore topics such as fear, consciousness, presence, curiosity as uncertainty reduction, combating social norms, animism, natural vs. human-created software, AGI, and limitations of sensory inputs. They also touch on the convergence of global traditions, Buddhism, and building a coherent world together.
Our perception of reality is shaped by our models, which are scaffolding comprised of maps, representations, or stories.
There are different stages of cognitive development and self-awareness, which involve the understanding and deconstruction of one's consciousness and self-model.
Curiosity and creativity are intertwined with agency and the pursuit of understanding, with individuals constantly seeking to expand their knowledge and models of reality, always striving to improve their representation of the world and their ability to navigate it.
Deep dives
Models of reality and the need for coherence and fidelity
Our perception of reality is shaped by our models, which are scaffolding comprised of maps, representations, or stories. We use these models to navigate and engage with reality, aiming for coherence and fidelity. We constantly refine and adjust our models based on our interactions and feedback from reality to mitigate uncertainty and decrease the gap between perception and reality.
The stages of lucidity and self-transformation
There are different stages of cognitive development and self-awareness, which involve the understanding and deconstruction of one's consciousness and self-model. These stages range from perceiving reality based on external authority to autonomously shaping beliefs and identifying with values. At more advanced stages, individuals can consciously modify their own cognition and self-architecture, leading to self-transformation and the ability to change the way they perceive and interact with reality.
Curiosity, creativity, and the search for complexity
Curiosity is the compulsion driven by uncertainty reduction, focusing on exploring and understanding complex phenomena. Creativity, on the other hand, involves producing novel and disruptive ideas or solutions and transforming oneself in the process. Curiosity and creativity are intertwined with agency and the pursuit of understanding, with individuals constantly seeking to expand their knowledge and models of reality, always striving to improve their representation of the world and their ability to navigate it.
The importance of embracing curiosity and finding one's passion
Yosha shares his personal experiences of following his curiosity and pursuing his passion for AI and computing from a young age. Despite facing skepticism and discouragement, he emphasizes the importance of staying true to one's interests and finding fulfillment in pursuing what is most interesting to oneself.
The concept of self-organizing software in nature and the convergence of different perspectives
Yosha discusses his perspective on the universe as being full of self-organizing software that controls matter at various levels. He highlights the compatibility of this perspective with the animist belief that everything in nature is alive and conscious. He also explores the convergence of diverse cultural and philosophical perspectives, including Buddhism, with his own ideas of self-organizing software, which opens up possibilities for understanding the nature of reality and consciousness.
Joscha Bach is a cognitive scientist and AI researcher. We talk about our relationship with & models of reality, creativity and curiosity, animism and self-organizing software, stages of development, and more.
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(01:25) The dream world; how we interact with & perceive reality
(03:49) Fear
(05:16) Self, consciousness, & awareness
(08:10) We're a coarse pattern on top of base reality
(11:13) Presence & perceptual windows
(12:16) Is this model mechanistic & reductionist?
(13:50) Life exists to minimize free energy
(16:47) What makes us different from other sentient beings & structures
(20:35) Creativity: self-transformative exploration
(23:40) Curiosity as uncertainty reduction
(29:20) Exploration vs. exploitation
(32:45) Combating social norms & conditioning; being a nerd
(35:18) Knowing which models to update
(37:56) Being a creator; being able to build & maintain
(43:21) Everything can be understood
(44:13) Animism; everything is self-organizing “software”
(48:48) Natural vs. human-created “software”
(50:57) AGI vs. natural intelligence
(55:15) Limited by the locality of our sensory inputs
(56:33) Stages of lucidity & development
(01:03:35) Convergence of global traditions
(01:09:40) Issue with Buddhism
(01:14:16) Where does the animism and software arise from?
(01:17:58) Building a coherent world, together
