Audience Is Everything: Rand Fishkin on AI Search, SEO, and the Future of Marketing

Rand Fishkin is the Co‑founder and CEO of SparkToro, a software company he launched in 2018 to make audience and market research more accessible to marketers and creators. He previously co‑founded Moz (originally SEOmoz) in 2003 and helped scale it into a leading SEO software company before stepping down as CEO in 2014. Rand authored Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World, co‑authored The Art of SEO, and is widely recognized for his Whiteboard Friday video series and keynote speaking at over 100 international events. 

In this episode…

Modern marketers face a harsh reality: The tools they once relied on to track performance — like attribution models — are now deeply flawed. As data becomes increasingly fragmented across devices, platforms, and privacy barriers, understanding what truly drives customer behavior has grown more complicated than ever. How can brands measure success when attribution data can no longer be trusted?

Rand Fishkin, a digital marketing and audience research specialist, offers a compelling case for abandoning rigid attribution models in favor of more human-centric, lift-based measurement. He recommends marketers return to fundamentals and observe customer behavior across multiple touchpoints, test messaging across regions or channels, and evaluate net impact over time. Rand encourages brands to shift focus from granular ROI tracking to identifying where their audience spends time and investing in channels, like podcasts and blogs, where competitors aren't yet visible. He also cautions against over-optimizing for paid media and emphasizes the power of brand presence and share of mind in an era dominated by AI-driven discovery.

In this episode of the Up Arrow Podcast, William Harris interviews Rand Fishkin, Co-founder and CEO of SparkToro, about how marketers can adapt to the changing digital landscape. Rand explores why traditional attribution is breaking down, how audience research unlocks new opportunities, and the flaws in post-purchase surveys. He also dives into AI’s role in SEO, the influence of brand mentions over backlinks, and the importance of leading with transparency and kindness.