Lex Fridman Podcast
#317 – John Vervaeke: Meaning Crisis, Atheism, Religion & the Search for Wisdom
Episode guests
Podcast summary created with Snipd AI
Quick takeaways
- The fear of death and the desire for connectedness drive the search for meaning in life.
- The meaning crisis is a combination of perennial problems and historical factors.
- The pursuit of wisdom and the search for truth are intertwined in the quest for meaning.
- Mindfulness enhances insight and self-regulation by improving our capacity for new perspectives.
- Participating in conversations and shared flow states can create deeper connection and insight.
- Myths connect individuals to deep patterns, fostering a sense of belonging and connectedness.
Deep dives
The Nature of Meaning in Life
Meaning in life is defined as the factors that make people rate their lives as more meaningful, worth living, and worth the suffering that they have to endure. It involves a sense of connectedness to oneself, other people, and the world, particularly in relation to things that have value and existence independent of one's personal preferences and concerns.
The Role of Death and Mortality
The fear of death and the awareness of one's own mortality are important motivators in the search for meaning. Going beyond the fear of death, the search for meaning is driven by a desire to be connected to something larger than oneself, something that has value and continues to exist even after one's death. This sense of connectedness to the world and the desire to make a difference and matter to something real are central aspects of finding meaning in life.
The Meaning Crisis
The meaning crisis is a combination of perennial problems and historical factors that have made the search for meaning more challenging in modern times. Perennial problems, such as finding existence absurd, experiencing existential anxiety, and feeling alienated, have always been part of the human condition. However, historical factors, such as the loss of traditional resources for meaning, have intensified these problems and made them more difficult to address.
Consciousness, Truth, and Wisdom
Consciousness is a complex and elusive phenomenon that requires an integrated understanding of what it is and what it does. Wisdom, on the other hand, is the coordination of multiple rationalities, the ability to transcend self-deceptive and self-destructive behavior, and to navigate complex and ill-defined situations effectively. The search for truth and the pursuit of wisdom are intertwined in the quest for meaning, requiring constant self-transcendence and an open-minded approach to understanding the world.
Mindfulness and the Different Practices
Mindfulness encompasses both meditation and contemplation. Meditation involves stepping back and looking at our frames, while contemplation involves looking through the frame. Mindfulness is the awareness of our mental framing, allowing us to break away from inappropriate frames and create new ones. It enhances insight and self-regulation by improving our capacity to see new perspectives and integrate them into our worldview.
The Power of Dialogues and Distributed Cognition
Dialogues and collective intelligence play a significant role in distributed cognition. Participating in conversations that take on a life of their own and lead to unexpected insights can create flow states and a deeper connection with oneself, others, and the world. Podcasts and YouTube videos break down boundaries between the private and public, oral speech and writing, allowing for the generation of shared flow states and meaningful dialogue. This collective flow state forms the foundation for myth building and ritual within a community.
The Functionality of Mythos and Religion
Myths are not just stories about the past, but narratives that bring awareness to pertinent patterns. They are public dreams that depend on distributed cognition and are enacted and experienced through dialogue and participatory flow states. The functionality of myth lies in connecting individuals and communities to deep patterns in meaningful ways, fostering a sense of belonging and connectedness.
The Meaning Crisis and Wisdom Famine
The meaning crisis is characterized by perennial problems of self-deception and self-destruction, leading to existential anxiety and despair. Wisdom offers a potential solution to these problems by providing ecologies of practices that promote self-correction and enhance connectedness and meaning in life. The need for wisdom and the search for meaning is highlighted by the increasing interest in non-theistic spirituality and the rise of the 'spiritual but not religious' demographic.
The importance of finding an ecology of practices and community that supports them
It is crucial for young people to find an ecology of practices and a supportive community that aligns with their values and combines wisdom and virtue. This involves seeking out activities and relationships that promote personal growth, deep connection with others, and a sense of purpose. By engaging in practices that cultivate wisdom and virtue, young people can set themselves up for a life they can be proud of.
The power of integrating the conscious and unconscious mind
Both Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud have contributed to our understanding of the human psyche. Jung's organic model emphasizes the importance of the unconscious mind in shaping our thoughts and behaviors, while Freud focuses on the psychodynamic unconscious. Integrating these two perspectives can lead to a more comprehensive understanding of ourselves and allow for personal growth and self-acceptance.
The dangers of falling into extreme ideologies
The podcast episode explores the dark history of Marxism and Nazism, emphasizing how both ideologies were rooted in all-encompassing beliefs that promised to create a better world. However, their ultimate failure was due to the Promethean spirit, the belief that humans could play God, and the distortion of key religious and philosophical concepts. Understanding the dangers of extreme ideologies can help young people navigate their own beliefs and be wary of falling into harmful ideologies.
The transformative power of love
Love is a central aspect of the human condition and plays a pivotal role in our pursuit of wisdom and meaning. Love allows us to transcend our ego-centric perspective and connect deeply with others, promoting empathy, compassion, and a greater understanding of ourselves and the world. Embracing love and learning to love wisely can lead to a more fulfilling and meaningful life.
John Vervaeke is a psychologist and cognitive scientist at University of Toronto. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
John’s YouTube: https://youtube.com/johnvervaeke
John’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john
John’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/VervaekeJohn
John’s Website: https://johnvervaeke.com
Books mentioned:
Flow: https://amzn.to/3cQDby9
On Bullshit: https://amzn.to/3PZDvYW
The Denial of Death: https://amzn.to/3KsIctp
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OUTLINE:
Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.
(00:00) – Introduction
(07:03) – Meaning
(27:17) – Consciousness
(36:17) – Relevance realization
(47:40) – Wisdom
(54:54) – Truth
(59:38) – Reality
(1:11:59) – Meaning crisis
(1:35:27) – Religion
(1:43:17) – Nontheism
(1:58:26) – Distributed cognition
(2:16:37) – Flow
(2:36:35) – Psychedelics
(2:45:03) – Marxism and Nazism
(2:57:08) – Evil
(3:01:19) – Powerful ideas
(3:08:10) – Advice for young people
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