DAT Stocks Are on Sale. Are They a Buy? Plus, Why Crypto Is Dead - Ep.985

27 snips

Dec 20, 2025

Guest

Dougie DeLuca

Guest

Steven Ehrlich

Join Steven Ehrlich, a crypto markets analyst, and Dougie DeLuca from Figment Capital for a deep dive into the changing landscape of digital assets. Steven highlights why digital asset treasury stocks (DATs) went from premiums to steep discounts, arguing it’s a long-term bet rather than an easy arbitrage opportunity. Dougie makes a bold case that 'crypto is dead' in its current form, emphasizing the necessity for mainstream adoption and sustainable products. They explore the risks and opportunities for investors in this evolving market.

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INSIGHT

DATs Are High-Beta Claims On Crypto

Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs) often trade as high-beta plays on their crypto holdings and can swing from premiums to deep discounts.
Steven Ehrlich expects MNAVs to settle around one once markets stabilize, barring company-specific issues.

ADVICE

Do Deep Diligence Before Buying DAT Stocks

Before buying DAT stocks at a discount, analyze each company's deal mechanics, dilution, and upcoming PIPE unlocks.
Treat purchases as long-term, high-conviction bets rather than quick arbitrage plays.

INSIGHT

No Simple Arbitrage Like GBTC Exists

Unlike GBTC, most DATs lack ETF-style arbitrage mechanisms, so discounts can persist or widen.
Share buybacks are too small relative to dilution to reliably close gaps to MNAV one.

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In this combined episode of Unchained, Steven Ehrlich first breaks down why crypto treasury stocks (DATs) have swung from massive premiums to deep discounts, why comparisons to GBTC can be misleading, and why buying these stocks isn’t a clean arbitrage trade but a long-term, high-conviction bet.

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Then, Figment Capital’s Dougie DeLuca zooms out to the broader shift underway. As fintechs and institutions embrace blockchain infrastructure, he argues that “crypto as we know it” may be fading—and that crypto natives risk being left behind unless they adapt to real users, sustainable products, and mainstream distribution.

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Guests:

Dougie DeLuca, Investor and Researcher at Figment Capital
Steven Ehrlich, Executive Editor at Unchained

Links:

Unchained:

Dougie's “Crypto is Dead” article

Timestamps:

👏 0:00 Intro
📘 1:16 What a DAT actually is and why mNAV matters more than most people think
📉 5:16 How deep the discounts really are and why some of them are optical illusions
⚖️ 7:12 Whether mNAVs should trade back to 1 and when that assumption breaks
🔁 8:59 How this compares to the GBTC discount and why the analogy can be dangerous
🧱 13:44 Why many DATs are stuck below mNAV and what’s structurally holding them down

🔍 16:34 How to pressure test different DATs to see which ones are opportunity and which are traps

19:34 Introduction
21:03 Why Dougie thinks crypto natives could be left behind as the market evolves
24:33 Why Dougie sees the current incentive-heavy crypto strategy fading away
27:13 Is crypto’s high risk market “saturated?”
28:32 Why Dougie sees Robinhood as a shining example of where crypto is going
29:46 How companies are shifting their strategies for this new moment in crypto
31:41 Why Dougie says the crypto label would be baggage in the future
33:13 Which companies are best positioned for the next phase of crypto adoption?
35:42 Which companies would have to evolve to survive?
42:11 Will the DeFi Mullet strategy prove successful?
42:17 Which parts of crypto culture should survive?
43:14 Why Dougie says Coinbase's content coins are still in their early innings
47:34 How crypto becomes mainstream
51:03 Is the four-year Bitcoin cycle over?

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