The Daily

The U.S. Banned Spyware — and Then Kept Trying to Use It

May 15, 2023

Mark Mazzetti, a Washington investigative correspondent for The New York Times, digs into the intriguing saga of NSO Group and its controversial Pegasus spyware. He reveals how, despite a U.S. ban, various government factions sought to utilize this powerful tool for alleged surveillance. The discussion covers the ethical dilemmas faced by the agency when using technology designed for lawful purposes but often misused to target journalists and activists. Mazzetti's insights shed light on the complex ties between the U.S. and surveillance firms.

22:13

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Episode guests

Mark Mazzetti

Highlights

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Episode notes

The Daily: The Origins of NSO, the Most Notorious Hacking Tool

01:17

Intro

3min

The Dark Side of Pegasus: Surveillance and Misuse

6min

Unveiling the U.S. Dilemma: Surveillance and Ethics

4min

Surveillance Shadows: The NSO Dilemma

7min

Political Turbulence in Turkey and Ukraine's Diplomatic Efforts

2min

A little over a decade ago, a small Israeli company created what would become the world’s most powerful and notorious hacking tool.

Mark Mazzetti, who is a Washington investigative correspondent for The Times, explains the surprising story of the NSO Group and why, despite banning its technology, the United States kept trying to use it.

Guest: Mark Mazzetti, a Washington investigative correspondent for The New York Times.

Background reading:

The Biden administration has been trying to choke off use of hacking tools made by the Israeli firm NSO. It turns out that not every part of the government has gotten the message.
The president signed an executive order seeking to limit deployment of a tool that has been abused by autocracies — and some democracies — to spy on dissidents, human rights activists and journalists.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

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