Tim Copeland was joined by Andrew Keys, Co-Founder of The Ether Machine, and Guilherme Gomes, Founder and CEO of OranjeBTC todiscuss the rapid rise of digital asset treasury companies. The conversation explored how these firms aim to outperform crypto ETFs through active management, including staking, DeFi, leverage, and capital markets strategies, while highlighting the risks around execution, premiums to NAV, and long-term sustainability.

OUTLINE

00:00 - Introduction

01:25 - Current State of Digital Asset Treasury Companies

04:28 - DeFi Strategies and Risk Management

09:13 - Why Investors Choose DATs Over ETFs

14:04 - Market Access and Regulatory Considerations

20:52 - Hong Kong Regulator Concerns About Premiums

26:36 - Share Buybacks and Finding Equilibrium

30:47 - Bitcoin vs Ethereum: Different Asset Profiles

34:42 - Market Cap Decline: From $176B to $100B

40:26 - MicroStrategy's Average Buy Price Risk

47:11 - The Flywheel Effect and Selling Scenarios

51:13 - US Insider Trading Probe

52:24 - Niche Token Treasuries and Liquidity Concerns

55:06 - Closing Remarks

Guest links:

Andrew Keys - https://x.com/AK_EtherMachine

The Ether Machine - https://x.com/TheEtherMachine Guilherme Gomes - https://x.com/GuiAmadoGomes

OranjeBTC - https://x.com/oranjebtc

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The state of digital asset treasury companies with The Ether Machine and OranjeBTC