Interview with John List, Chief Economist at Wal-mart
Mar 18, 2022
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John List, chief economist at Walmart and professor at the University of Chicago, shares his remarkable transition from aspiring golf pro to a leading economist. He discusses the evolution of economic research from environmental themes to practical applications in business. List delves into the importance of scaling effective programs and the challenges of applying academic findings in real-world scenarios. He also highlights the role of entrepreneurial thinking in shaping modern economic landscapes, particularly in tech industries, and explores the dynamics of intimacy within contemporary marketplaces.
John List shifted from pursuing professional golf to economics, which reshaped his career path and research focus on practical social problems.
In his new book, List emphasizes the importance of scalability in economics, advocating for empirical evidence to support effective program implementation.
List critiques traditional economics for often overlooking practical application, advocating integration of experimental design to enhance the real-world impact of economic solutions.
Deep dives
John List's Background and Transition to Economics
John List initially pursued a career in professional golf, but shifted his focus to economics after realizing his limitations as a golfer. His academic journey began at the University of Wisconsin at Stevens Point, where he developed interests in environmental and resource economics. Throughout his early career, List conducted field experiments, even while attending baseball card shows, which laid the groundwork for his innovative approach to economics. Over time, his research interests broadened beyond environmental issues to encompass various social problems and economic theories.
Exploring the Science of Scaling Ideas
In his new book, List investigates the factors that contribute to the successful scaling of ideas, emphasizing the importance of empirical evidence in this process. He recalls his experiences with a pre-K education program in Chicago Heights, which provided promising results but faced skepticism regarding its scalability. This encounter led him to rethink the relationship between his academic findings and their practical implementation. List advocates for a greater emphasis on understanding scalability within the field of economics to create real-world impact.
The Transition from Theory to Practical Application
List discusses how traditional economics often emphasizes theoretical insights without sufficient consideration of practical implementation. He critiques the common practice of evaluating programs based solely on efficacy tests, which may overlook critical factors needed for scaling. By focusing on the 'weakest link' problem in scaling ideas, he highlights that a successful concept must possess the necessary conditions and adapt to broader contexts without losing efficacy. This perspective encourages economists to integrate experimental design and implementation strategies in their work.
The Role of Chief Economists in Tech Companies
In recent discussions about labor markets, List notes a growing demand for chief economists in technology firms, generating exciting opportunities for economists. He reflects on past experiences with firms like Uber and Amazon, where the influence of economists could foster data-driven decision-making. However, he warns that the rigid structures often present in corporate culture can stifle the creativity and intellectual freedom that many economists desire. List emphasizes the importance of aligning personal academic goals with the aims of corporate roles to ensure impactful contributions in these environments.
Creating Sustainable and Scalable Solutions
List identifies critical aspects for evaluating whether an idea is sustainable and scalable, underscoring the need for thorough assessments of each initiative's potential impact. He articulates the necessity of understanding the context and specific circumstances that can affect an idea's adaptability across different populations and situations. By using examples like the polio vaccination campaign, he illustrates how successful infrastructure and understanding of social factors can lead to robust implementation. Ultimately, creating scalable solutions requires a nuanced approach that marries theoretical insights with practical realities, allowing innovative ideas to flourish.
Scott Cunningham, professor of economics at Baylor University and author of Causal Inference: the Mixtape, interviews John List, professor of economics at University of Chicago, chief economist at Walmart (formerly Lyft and Uber Chief Economist), and author of THE VOLTAGE EFFECT about his life and career as an economist inside and outside academia, as well as the distinction between scientific work focused on narrow empirical questions and the science of scaling programs into their maximum effectiveness. .
