Coal is the dirtiest fossil fuel, bad for both the environment and human health. But it still produces a third of the world’s electricity. Eliminating its use will be crucial in the fight against climate change but the task is proving very challenging. As world leaders gather in Azerbaijan this week for the UN’s COP29 climate summit, we travel to South Africa to learn how to (and how not to) phase out coal. We also hear about the issues making waves at COP29—including what Donald Trump’s second presidential term could mean for climate change policy around the world.

Host: Alok Jha, The Economist’s science and technology editor. Contributors: The Economist’s Vijay Vaitheeswaran, Rachel Dobbs and John McDermott.

For more on COP29, check out the latest episode of our “Money Talks” podcast, which examines whether the bill for the energy transition has been overestimated.

Transcripts of our podcasts are available via economist.com/podcasts.

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