In this engaging discussion, Jim Bianco, a macroeconomic expert and leader of Bianco Research, teams up with Jay Hatfield, a seasoned macro strategist managing $2.6 billion at Infrastructure Capital. They delve into the paradox of rising Treasury yields amidst Fed rate cuts and the implications for investors. Hatfield introduces his "Hopfield Rule," linking housing starts to potential recessions, while Bianco highlights the powerful influence of retail investors in stabilizing markets. The duo also examines the effects of fluctuating oil prices and the evolving landscape of inflation.
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insights INSIGHT
Fed Policy and Yield Paradox
The 30-year Treasury yield nearing an 18-year high signals major market tension.
The paradox is that rate cuts last September caused yields to rise, showing complex inflation fears at play.
insights INSIGHT
Housing Starts Predict Recession
Falling housing starts below 1.1 million have historically preceded most recessions, per the "Hatfield Rule".
High mortgage rates and slow housing may push the economy closer to recession than expected.
insights INSIGHT
Housing Prices Defy Rate Cuts
Home prices per square foot remain at all-time highs despite softening market data.
Mortgage rate cuts may not reduce monthly payments if house prices adjust upward.
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The financial world stands at a critical juncture as Treasury yields approach 18-year highs and markets wrestle with conflicting economic signals. In this riveting conversation between macro strategists Jim Bianco and Jay Hatfield, hosted by Michael Gayed, we explore the counterintuitive relationship between Fed policy and market reactions that has left many investors scratching their heads.
When the Fed cut rates last September, yields went up. This paradox forms the backdrop for a fascinating debate about whether higher rates might actually be the cure for higher rates. Hatfield advances his "Hopfield Rule"—the observation that housing starts falling below 1.1 million units have preceded 11 of 12 post-WWII recessions—suggesting we may be closer to economic trouble than many realize. Meanwhile, a 20% drop in oil prices this year has created what Hatfield calls "stag-deflation" rather than the stagflation many fear.
The conversation takes a surprising turn when examining market influences. Bianco reveals that retail investors purchased $4.1 billion worth of stocks in just four hours following the Moody's downgrade, effectively stabilizing the market. This "do-it-yourself" investor revolution has fundamentally changed market dynamics, with retail traders wielding unprecedented influence despite focusing on just a handful of popular stocks and ETFs.
Both experts offer nuanced perspectives on tariffs, inflation expectations, and the global bond sell-off. While the immediate outlook suggests continued volatility, they highlight that today's fixed income market structure offers significantly more favorable characteristics than during the initial rate hiking cycle of 2022-2023.
Whether you're concerned about spiking Treasury yields, curious about the impact of retail traders, or trying to position your portfolio for what comes next, this discussion provides crucial insights from two of the sharpest minds in macro investing. Subscribe for more illuminating conversations that help you navigate these complex market conditions.
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