Episode 55 – Project Management: Leading Teams On and Off the Field

AAnNICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  Every other week we meet in an effort to get to the heart of what matters to you as a professional project manager.  We do that by talking with some of the leaders in the field, sharing their successes and sometimes their failures.  And we dig deep to find out what motivates them to be at their best. I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me are two guys who are always at their best, Andy Crowe and Bill Yates.  Andy, our guest in the studio today will be familiar to football fans, but he’s actually moved on to a different field. ANDY CROWE:  Yeah, and we’ve got a lot of energy in this small podcast studio today, though.  We’re kind of bursting at the seams.  It’s a good thing. NICK WALKER:  But you know it’s not every day that we can refer to a former NFL star as “Doctor.” TOMMY JACKSON:  Ah, that’s what I’m told, that’s what I’m told. NICK WALKER:  Yeah, but Dr. Tommy Jackson was a defensive tackle for the Atlanta Falcons and the Kansas City Chiefs.  He now serves as the Director of Advising for University College at Kennesaw State University.  Jackson holds five university degrees.  Count ‘em:  a Master of Business Administration, Master of Public Administration, Bachelor of Arts in Public Administration, a Master of Education, and a Doctorate in Philosophy and Adult Education with Higher Education Administration. TOMMY JACKSON:  A lot of “tions,” right. NICK WALKER:  Yeah, yeah. ANDY CROWE:  That’s a long business card, my friend. BILL YATES:  It’s typical for a football player. NICK WALKER:  Of course, yeah, exactly. TOMMY JACKSON:  That’s why you just put “T.J.” on the card.  It makes it so much easier. NICK WALKER:  Well, you know, as a student at Auburn University, Dr. Jackson received an All-SEC honor both in football and in academics.  As a television sports analyst, he’s been nominated for an Emmy Award.  And in between his work in education he was also the program director for the at-risk student program within the city school system in Opelika, Alabama, his hometown.  Dr. Tommy Jackson, it’s a pleasure to have you with us here on Manage This. TOMMY JACKSON:  I am so glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Truly, truly. NICK WALKER:  You had a stellar career in football, both at Auburn University and for two NFL teams.  And in that career you developed, should I say, a reputation for destroying your opponents on the field.  But also you have a passion for building people up. TOMMY JACKSON:  Yeah. NICK WALKER:  And helping them succeed in life.  How do you sort of reconcile those two extremes? TOMMY JACKSON:  You know, because it’s very funny, you have to basically have the same mentality for both, whether you know that or not; right?  And people are like, wait, what do you mean?  Hold on, I’m going to explain it. No, working with people is something that takes a lot of – it takes having a passion for it.  And that’s something I’ve always had, whether it was playing football, whether it was working with students, you have to have a great passion for it because in order for you to be successful at anything, you have to have a high degree of passion, and you have to have a high degree of education.  And that doesn’t necessarily mean degrees from that standpoint.  But it’s like having an understanding of what you’re doing.  That’s what really – that’s what buys your credibility.  People are able to say, “Ah, he’s done it.  He’ll do it.”  And these are just things I’ve done over life. So, yeah, I enjoy football that way.  I was always in the classroom.  I was always looking at video.  And I was always studying my opponent.  And it’s the same thing you do when you work at a university or you work in the private sector.  You’re going to study.  You’re going to study your opponents.  ou’re going to study everything you do. BILL YATES:  Can we call you Tommy? TOMMY JACKSON:  Yes.  I’m glad you said that. BILL YATES:  Okay.  Dr. Jackson, Tommy... TOMMY JACKSON:  I’m Tommy. BILL YATES:  One of the things that, when I think about the role that you played, you focused on as a young man, both, you know, in your football career, you were the obstacle; right? TOMMY JACKSON:  Indeed. BILL YATES:  You were the pain inflictor.  You were the tip of the spear.  You were in the role of a defensive tackle or a nose guard. TOMMY JACKSON:  Yes, yes. BILL YATES:  So you were a disruptor. TOMMY JACKSON:  Have to be. BILL YATES:  Yeah.  So it’s funny, when I think about the experiences that you’ve had there, you can relate to a project manager because many times project managers are trying to figure out how to manage that type of behavior. TOMMY JACKSON:  Absolutely. BILL YATES:  So I want to hear what experience you have as having been an obstacle for PMs who maybe have obstacles now on their team that they’re trying to deal with. TOMMY JACKSON:  You know, it’s amazing.  I think about the role of being a defensive tackle; right?  So what people don’t understand about linemen is this.  Linemen truly lead by getting rid of obstacles or removing things for people.  So, yes, I may have been an obstacle for my opposition.  But for my team, oh, man, I’m the guy that removes those obstacles, man.  And that’s the way you have to approach things. So I would just think about this from a football standpoint.  So for linebackers, linebackers always need a defensive tackle to basically cause disruption, jam those offensive linemen, remove people from them so they can make plays; right?  It’s the same thing being a project manager.  Think about it.  What are we here to do?  We’re here to remove those obstacles.  We’re here to make life easier for our team because ultimately, by being the leader, you’re basically serving.  That’s what you’re here to do; right?  And so for linemen, you know, that’s really what we do.  We lead by serving.  It’s true servant leadership. ANDY CROWE:  You know, Tommy, one of the things that we do, we have a weekly standup meeting here.  A lot of organizations do daily standup meetings.  But in that standup meeting, everybody gets around, and we talk about three things:  What did you do since our last meeting?  What have you got planned for your next work period?  And what obstacles are you encountering?  And we’re really interested in that aspect because then the project manager or the coach on the team can get out there and try and remove as many obstacles as they can.  So it’s similar to that role that you played.  It’s interesting. TOMMY JACKSON:  Oh, wow. ANDY CROWE:  Just real quickly, I’m curious.  When you’re studying tapes, what are two or three things that you look for that you’re watching in your opponent?  What are you looking at?  What are you trying to identify? TOMMY JACKSON:  Wow.  So I’m glad you said that.  It’s so amazing, I was about to go into that.  You look for tendencies, one, because tendencies are so important; right?  And that’s in any industry.  That’s in sports.  That’s in the private sector,  and that’s if you’re working in marketing.  It’s anywhere.  The financial services industry, it does not matter.  You look for tendencies because, when you understand a tendency, you can see where things are moving to, where things are going.  I remember hearing Wayne Gretzky say it’s not the guy who follows the puck, but it’s about where the puck is going. BILL YATES:  Right. ANDY CROWE:  You skate where it’s going to be. TOMMY JACKSON:  That’s what those tendencies help you do.  They help you figure out how to, not follow, but how to get ahead.  A case in point, like in football, if you saw a guy, everybody tells this one, like, oh, he has white knuckles, you know he’s coming off the ball.  Actually, people heard about that, so people started faking that out.  So you would get, you know, you sit back.  He’s all, let me get ready.  No. People like to show certain things, right, in order for you to kind of fall into it so that they can basically get one up on you; right?  But it’s about being smart enough to understand how some of those tendencies, they do work for you.  But you’re also smart enough to see, one, where the industry’s going; and, two, what are you going to do once you get where you’re going?  It’s amazing in football because people don’t realize how technical it is. ANDY CROWE:  Right. TOMMY JACKSON:  But it’s just like the business world.  Like for instance, if I know for a fact that I have a performer on my team, and there are certain things that they’re not great at; right?  Why would I put that person in that position to continue to fail over and over and over again?  That’s bad coaching on me, and it’s being a bad teammate for me; right? So what do you do when you have those people who are amazing performers, and you know that putting them in this position every time – for instance, I have a guy who likes to rush off the edge.  He’s a great pass rusher.  He’s probably not going to play the run well.  So guess what?  If I’ve got guys who do things really well, keep them in that place, keep encouraging them, and they’re going to help you win every time. ANDY CROWE:  I like that. TOMMY JACKSON:  Every time. BILL YATES:  Mm-hmm, that’s good. ANDY CROWE:  You know, thinking back to another great sports figure, Muhammad Ali, that was the thing that he would do that was so confusing.  He would get people assuming he was going to do a certain thing, and then his motions would confuse his opponents to no end, his footwork and his handwork.  You wouldn’t know what he was going to do next.  So he kept people off balance that way.  We’ve had a few team members do that from time to time, keep us off balance.  We don’t know what they’re going to do next. BILL YATES:  They’re playing rope-a-dope. TOMMY JACKSON:  Yeah.  Now, remember, we’re dealing with people.  And that’s what I think people must realize when managing.