TCC Podcast #206: Writing Facebook Ads with Sarah Sal

Facebook ads are one of those copywriting deliverables that neither of us focus on in our business. But we want to know more. So we invited copywriter and Facebook Ad Specialist Sarah Sal to share what she knows about the dark arts of Facebook ads. Here’s what we talked about: •   how Sarah went from math and IT to writing Facebook ads •   the connections between the disciplines of math and copywriting •   the basics you need to know about the algorithm to write Facebook ads •   what elements (tactics) you should include when writing an ad •   the resources she looks for before Sarah starts to write an ad •   why you might want to encourage comments on your FB ads •   some of the changes that have some to FB ads in the last couple of years •   how she looks for the different angles that might appeal to readers •   changing ads versus changing strategy •   what Sarah has seen is the most effective kind of ad on FB •   the investments she’s made in herself to make her more effective •   how she structures her packages and why she doesn’t sign on for the long term •   the mistakes she’s made along the way •   what she’s done to land big clients—and how you can do it too •   Sarah’s experience in The Copywriter Underground •   cats To hear what Sarah shared—or the extra thoughts Kira and Rob added—click the button below. Or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. For a full transcript, just scroll down. ..... The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sarah’s TCC Blog Post Sarah's website The Copywriter Accelerator Laura Belgray Perry Marshall Hootesuite AdEspresso Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   Facebook ads are one of those copyrighting deliverables that neither Rob nor I do. We've run ads, but it's not our specialty. That's why we invited Sarah Sal to be our guest for the 206th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Sarah is one of our founding members of the Copywriter Underground, and one of the most active members in that group, which is why she was also our Mole of the Month, which is one of our most active and engaged members. And we call her Mole of the Month because most of our members, not all of them, refer to themselves as moles, as in the rodent. Sarah's always entertaining in the group and talks frequently about her cats, and pizza, and entertains all of us, as you'll see in this episode. And this conversation with Sarah gave us plenty to think about when it comes to running our ads on Facebook. Rob:   We'll get to our interview in just a second, but first we want to tell you that this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind group for copywriters, content writers, brand strategists, anyone who is ready for the training, coaching and support that they need to grow their business to, say, $200,000 or more. This is the only place where Kira and I provide one-on-two strategy sessions and coaching designed to help you achieve more than ever. If you're interested in learning more about the Think Tank, drop us an email at rob@thecopywriterclub.com or kira@thecopywriterclub.com, and we'll tell you a little more. Kira:   Let's jump right into our interview with Sarah. Hey, Sarah. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a Facebook ads strategist and copywriter? Sarah Sal:   Curiosity, like a cat that is looking for trouble. Facebook marketing, copywriting have absolutely nothing to do with my background. I studied computer science in university and then I studied applied mathematics. And I really enjoyed research in math. I actually, for my thesis, wrote nearly 200 pages of math theorem, formula, proof, and so on. And at some point, I was. I'm going to do a PhD. I really enjoy math. It's really like meditation for me. But then, I realized once I started that I love math, I love research in math, I didn't like academia and the job opportunity, and asking for grant, and so on. So, I fall back on my IT and study computer science, and I worked in IT for a while. Then, over 10 years ago, it was when Facebook ads started working and everyone was talking about Facebook ads like it's the future. So, I started learning about Facebook API. I even joined a few hackathon in Berlin, some of them organized by Facebook, and I won some prizes. Then, one thing lead to the other because you cannot talk about Facebook ads without marketing. So, I started taking course like Perry Marshall's Facebook Marketing course. And before I know it, I'm here and I write a lot of article about Facebook marketing. So, that's for Facebook marketing. Copywriting, people often tell me, "Hey, Sarah. We really love your copy. You're a good copywriter." And the reaction, "Am I really a copywriter?" This despite having articles, some of the best publication like Copyhackers, Copywriter's Club, and so on. But the thing is more curiosity, because if you do Facebook marketing, Facebook marketing never live in an ecosystem and it's all with zero interaction with the rest of the world where user is. So, for me, copywriting was curiosity, how could they improve Facebook marketing by learning something that has nothing to do with Facebook marketing. And that's how one could be a good marketer, not only focusing on a very narrow specialty. It's curiosity. Rob:   Yeah, I love the combination of those two things. That makes a ton of sense. Before we get into Facebook ads and what you do for your clients there, I'd really like to know a little bit more about how you see what you learned in math and science, and how that applies to what you do as a copywriter and a Facebook ad strategist today. Are their connections? Sarah Sal:   Of course. Of course. Because marketing is dipping your toe into the water and there is a discipline of mathematic or artificial intelligence called... I'm trying to remember the name. I know the French name. [foreign language 00:04:47]. Machine learning. Machine learning in English. And it's basically you try something. If you make mistakes, you correct it. If you do something that is good, you're keeping the same direction. Same thing with marketing. There's no secret formula. It's this, this, this, this and have some feedback loop that allow you to improve on what you learned, on what you do. Kira:   Sarah, you mentioned that you started about 10 years ago with Facebook ads and Facebook ad marketing. What was that moment when you felt like you made it or like, "Hey, I know what I'm doing. This is my thing"? When was that moment for you and your business? Sarah Sal:   I think sometimes you go through life, and then like, "Oh, am I really a Facebook marketer. Oh, do I do copywriting?" And if you enjoy something, you just do it, and then you're like, "Oh, okay. Is it really 10 years? Maybe I need to start thinking about Botox?" I don't say there is a problem, a moment. It's just like life. You don't go from zero to hero overnight. It's something you build slowly. And before you realize it, you look back, "Oh my god, am I really that known and famous?" And even people who jump on calls with me said, "Hey, I googled your name. Oh my god, you're everywhere." And I'm like, "Okay, okay." So, yeah. Sometimes it's good to be modest and not be like, "Hey, I know everything I made. I'm the best," because then you never learn. If your mentality is I know everything I made, I have nothing to learn, then, candidly, you stop learning and then you stop getting better, and you stop being good at what you do. Rob:   Okay. So, I want to take that seriously for a minute, because there are definitely things around Facebook ads that I can learn and get better at. And that probably includes everything. Tell us, Sarah, what is it that you need to know or do to get started writing and doing Facebook ads well? Sarah Sal: You need to forget about that algorithm. There is an unhealthy obsession and people forget they're talking about human being. It's nearly like a marketer every day that are rubbing a lamp and begging the genie, "Oh, genie. Tell me what's new with Facebook algorithm today that is not what was yesterday." And they forget it's interruption marketing. You're talking to a human being. You're in Starbucks. You cannot just walk to somebody and say, "Hey, do you want to make more money? Hey, do you want to pay less taxes? Hey, do you want to get rid of back pain?" Because people would look at you strangely and say, "Who you are?" Nobody you have a conversation with, a friend or a conversation that's so interesting that the person next to you will turn their head, and they would say, "Oh, okay, I need to put my book down, my latte down, and listen in." That's like the biggest mindset shift, I would say. Kira:   Yeah. Let's talk more about the copy side of writing Facebook ads, because it's something that I've never specialized in. And even now, with the Copywriter Club, I feel like we throw our ads together last minute, and there could always be a lot better. So, can you just talk through for copywriters listening, if they're writing Facebook ad copy for their own business or for their clients, what are some of the elements that we should include and think about and what should we avoid, beyond what you just mentioned about the mindset shift, and making it conversational, like you would, in a coffee shop? But what are the actual tactical changes we can make? Sarah Sal:   Yeah. Number one, a good ad doesn't look like an ad. No one join Facebook to read ads. So, that's very, very, very important. Number two, Facebook is interruption marketing, and you need to think of Google versus email versus Facebook. And that's a big mistake. Copywriter, for example, make Google somebody look for a product. It's just demand fulfillment. And just raising your hands, "Hey. Hey,