BE THAT LAWYER Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch: Why Most Law Firms Never Scale
In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Robert Armstrong, and Sandy Fisch discuss:
- Legal expertise without systems limits growth
- Focus outperforms expansion without infrastructure
- Value-based models outperform time-based billing in an AI-driven future
- Future-proof firms are systemized, collaborative, and diversified
Key Takeaways:
- Most firms are built by technicians who understand legal work but not business operations. Sustainable firms require deliberate work on systems, strategy, and management.
- Deep specialization strengthens results, clarity, and scale. Expanding practice areas too early dilutes effectiveness and increases operational drag.
- Hourly billing weakens as automation accelerates legal work. Flat-fee pricing combined with strong human relationships aligns better with efficiency and client outcomes.
- Recurring revenue, acquisition-ready structures, and trusted peer communities reduce dependence on individuals. Long-term resilience comes from systems, relationships, and adaptive business models.
"There's a difference between working on the business and working in the business." — Sandy Fisch
Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.
Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/
Thank you to our Sponsor!
Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/
Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/
About Robert Armstrong: Robert Armstrong is President of the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys and co-founder of Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm. A U.S. Navy veteran and summa cum laude graduate of UC San Diego, he earned his Juris Doctor from the University of San Diego in 1976.
A recognized thought leader in estate planning, Robert has authored several books, including The E-Myth Attorney, and has been quoted in national publications such as the Wall Street Journal. He frequently appears on television as an estate planning expert.
Robert lives in Knoxville, Tennessee, with his wife, Jennifer, and enjoys reading, daily workouts, and time outdoors with his family.
About Sandy Fisch: Sanford Fisch is a principal at Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm recognized nationwide for excellence. He co-founded the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys to help attorneys and law firms improve their skills and practices.
Known for expertise and enthusiasm, Sanford seeks more effective ways to serve clients, support fellow attorneys, and advance the practice of estate planning law across the United States.
Connect with Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch:
Website: https://www.aftattorneys.com/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.